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Is anybody using Hawk bullets, I was thinking about trying some for the 45-70. Any experiences in any caliber? How do they shoot? How about performance on game? Being a 'soft' copper jacket do they foul the bore worse than regular jacketed bullets? Any input would be much appreciated.
 

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whitesmoke these are top notch bullets, I have not tested with these in my 338WinMag but they are on there way. I have heard many good reports on the bullet. they have great penatration and expantion, they stay together also. There site has info and pictures on there bullets, very imformative.
Loader told me about them. Aim small hit small.
 

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Great hunting bullets...probably the best choice for older BP type rifles. Good selection of sizes and weights. Have never tried them in high velocity rounds, but have used them in .406" with great perfomance.

IF the copper jacket fouls more than guilding metal, I can't see the difference...both will foul a bit (am a cast bullet shooter, so i like to remove all of the jacketed fouling I can before shooting lead).

Not something I do a lot of shooting with (there just aren't that many critters one gets to shoot in a season), but becasue of their copper construction, don't fear using a few of them each year in old barrels.
 

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Hawk bullets are the best premium bullets on the market today, in my humble opinion. I have used them in .308, .338, .429, and .416. Copper build up is the same as any jacketed bullet, and no where near Barns Xs.

Use the web site, www.hawkbullets.com, and get the phone number...call and ask for Andy. Even custom runs are not that expensive...they will move cannelures around on off the shelf bullets for very little extra.

Geneally they shoot to higher velocities with less powder because they seal the bore so well, and are shorter than competitors giving extra powder capacity. Expansion and penetration are nothing short of remarkable...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the info loader, have you made any kills with Hawk bullets? Which caliber, how far and what kind of shot? How about accuracy? I have talked to them before and they said they could for an additional cost add a cannelure to the bullet but said that isn't necessary if you use the Lee factory crimp die, what's your opinion?
 

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I load for a number of big game hunters associated with the US Fish and Wildlfe Service and the National Park Service. How I got started is another story, but this is a long tradition in a group of 11 to 14 outdoorsmen (some are now deceased).

The Hawk bullets beat everyting we tried in the field , including Nosler partitions, Fail Safe, Woodleigh, Barnes X, Barnes Originals, Speer Grand Slams and Hornady interlocks. This includes Moose, Caribou, Bear, Elk, Deer, Hogs, Sharks and one poachers pick up truck.

Longest shot was 440 yards on a Alaskan moose, 300 Win Mag 200 gr Hawk 2850 fps. Shot hit high amid ships but severed the spinal chord with exit wound slightly larger than a can of Skoal.

Closest shot was the (unoccupied) pick up truck...point blank at the block through the left fender. 416 Rem Mag 500 (yes, 500) gr Hawk at 2210 fps. No exit wound other than pieces of engine block, some of which came up through the hood (never poach twice in the same place in a National Park).

This same load took a shark in 12 feet of water.

OK, enough war stories. I don't want to oversell anything. You don't need what the Hawks offer in situations where a combination of reliable penetration and expansion are not needed.
Any partition bullet will do well on all of the game mentioned. Its just that the Hawks will do better when the angle is bad, the range is long, or there is brush to shoot through.

The cannelure should be placed on any round with more recoil than an '06. Without it its very hard to tell how much grip you have actually imparted to the bullet, and you can make a mistake.

Also, I don't recommend asking for your Hawks in the classic spitzer form...they derive their Ballistic coefficient from ogive and the finely tapered RN configuration is partly responsible for their fine terminal performance.
 

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loader-

I was just curious. How about the performance of the Hawk Bullets in the F/N configuration? Do they expand more or less than the R/N style? I had heard before that the Hawk R/N's were better performers on game than the Spitzers, but never seen many comments on the F/N's. Any experience with the F/N's would be appreciated.
 

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The F/Ns are very similar in the expansion department to the RNs. Remember to specify jacket thickness based on the application, this makes a big difference in the expansion rate.
 

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loader-

Thanks for the advice. One more question, if you don't mind. Do you think it is worth it to place a custom order based on a jacket thickness that is not standard for a particular bullet that Hawk produces? An example of this would be the standard .308 diameter 170 grn F/N which has a jacket thickness of .025; I was thinking about ordering this bullet in .030 or .035 for use in my .307 Winchester and .300 Savage. However, the minimum order (4 to 6 boxes) could total more than $150. I was thinking that this expense might not be worth the benefits of the thicker jacket for the harder hitting rifle.

What do you think?
 

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Matt -

That's a tough one...the .025 jackets are listed a "low velocity and pistol", so they might be too explosive for deer at the 307/300 sav velocities.

Sounds like the 307 is the only tube magazine...the 300 sav should be a box type. For the 300, 165 gr .030 and .035 are not custom offerings in the RN configuration. I would get one box of .025 170 FNs for the 307 and one box of the .030 RNs for the 300 Savage. Test out the .025s when you are working up loadswith wet newsprint or a large can of glazing compound to see how they hold up.

I have another idea I will run by Andy at Hawk...the .308 RNs look like it would be quick and easy to flatten the tips to get a small melpat the size of the FNs. I'll let you know if its safe. That would allow you to use the Rns in both rifles.
 

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loader-

Thanks again for the advice. I may just try the 165 grn R/N's in the .300 Savage first to see how I like the Hawk Bullets, rather than risk the expense of a custom order. If the .030 or .035 work well on deer in the .300 than the performance should be almost identical for the .307 with the same jacket in a custom F/N order.

Also, it's good to run into somebody on the net that has positive comments about Hawk Bullets. Last year I did a lot of asking around and got a lot of negative feedback on some forums. Always seemed to be from those who were trying to shoot them out of magnums or hot rod '06 class improved cartridge.
My main interest in them has been in levergun cartridges such as the .307/.356/.375 Winchester and the .444 Marlin/.45-70 class; as Hawk seems to have the best selection of bullet styles and weights offered in those cartidges.

Thanks again for your advice,
 

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Think you'll find Hawk pretty good about technical questions...but would guess that the thin jacketed bullet would hang together at the impact vel. of a .303S. or 30-30...may be a bitt too much of a good thing for the increaed vel. of a closer range hit with the .307.

Most of the Hawk bullets used on meat have been the 260gr. FN .406" bullets (.030"). Don't know if they were a special order or not; bought them from a hunting buddy who no longer had the rifle he bought them for. While not made for it, they work fine in a .401WSL, which can launch them out a little (300fps) faster than the BP rounds that they were designed for.

To be truthfull, I'd probably use that .307 with heavy weight Hawk bullets for short range/big critter use. Should come close to origninal 30/40Krag velocity with bullets of 200 or 220gr. That seems tame by today's standards, but those long bullets will expand and penetrate very well. If looking for ligher (150-170gr) bullets, there are a lot of good choices from standard makers.
 

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Dutch -

I talked to Andy at Hawk, and he has already had the .416 RNs cut into flat points to work in a guide gun. He will cut a few 165 .308s to see if the meplat comes out to spec and get back to me.
 

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loader-

That would be great news! I have a relative who has "cut" .358 caliber R/N's into F/N's for me in the past; so I'm sure he could do the same again with the Hawk bullets in .308 diameter.

I feel kinda dense, but it never occurred to me to try it with the Hawks instead of getting a custom order.

What jacket thickness would you recommend for the .300 Savage/.307 Winchester in the 180 grn class? I may try cutting a flat on the 180 grn round tip in order to keep the bullet weight above 165 grn.

:D
 

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The cut will be less than 5 grains, so lets say you are shooting 175s. I figure the Savage will be OK with 180 RNs and the cuts will be for the 307, which will do 2400 to 2500 fps. At this velocity, the .030 jacket should be very good, and cover you on bad angle shots with good penetration. Be sure the meplat is as big as the factory ammo for the 307, and use CCI primers...they are a bit harder. Don't keep any large pistol primers anywhere near your bench! Also, don't try this unless andy says its OK.

You may want him to add cannelures @ $2.00 per box, or use a Lee factory crimp die.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Loader, one more question on cannelures. I am thinking of going with the .025" jacket on the .458 350 gr. hollow point or the 300gr flat or round nose. I'll be running either one in the 2000 to 2100 fps range out of my Ruger #1 45-70. Although you recommended a cannelure for anything with more recoil than an '06' do I still need a cannelure being that I'll be shooting these in a single shot. I still want to crimp for uniform ballistics, will the Lee factory crimp die do the job without a cannelure? What do you think?
 

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No cannelure for single shots...its only application in non-military weapons is to keep the bullets from sliding in the neck during recoil. These should be superb hunting rounds.
 

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whitesmoke-

The Lee Factory Crimp Die will work fine on bullets without a cannelure. Since you are loading them in a single shot I would recommend that you don't need an extremely heavy crimp. Just adjust the die as the directions advise and leave it at that. The crimp should be heavy enough at that point to provide uniform ballistics.

Hope this helps,
 

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Speer does nor recommend crimping there noncannelure bullets...May cause separation in there bonding method. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.
 
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