I'm ready to order a F.L. sizer, but also I will need to get some real store bought forming dies for making a new wildcat case out of a Ruger 416 Basic. The question is how to bring this project down to earth. I have a Rock Chucker press, and/or a 2 ton arbor Press. But I'm thinking of a labor saving hydralic app. running on something like a Dillon progressive. This Ruger case is one tough hombre, and I haven't pulled off a rim yet. My case is a 8mm x 416 Ruger, but it is much more than just a necked down version. I redesigned the 8x68M Schuler, using the common U.S. case, slightly modified, to prevent anything close from chambering. So it will take five or six forming steps, before the resizing F.L. stage. Also, this is why I grabbed the Basics, since I don't have to get rid of the existing abrupt shoulders of the 375's or 416's. I admit the 8x338 will work better and be a lot easier to form, but I don't like the belt, sharp shoulder, and shorty neck. My cat, is designed to get rid of the jump in a mil. mauser's chamber throat, and still feed and extract very slickly, but it's going to be really a pain to form cases for, by hand. We have a local shooter who does his skeet loads on just such a hyd. lashup with Dillion progressives, and quick disconnect hyd. hoses from foot activated electric pumps. But I don't know if that rigging will handle the thrust loads of squshing down the big Ruger basic cases.
Heavy duty forming question
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I have two arbor presses that accept .500 shank C&H bolt on shell holders, when it comes to strength!!! Careful what you wish for, a steel plate/block with 7/8 X 14 threads holds the die, a plate with a round tapered hole holds a barrel, getting cases out of the die and or chamber of the barrel is not a given (as to being easy) even with the best of lubes. but this method is as good as cerosafe.
The hydraulic press ideal would require a general understanding of the closed system that involves a pump with a high pressure (discharge) side and a suction/low pressure (return) side. The amount of pressure created is determined by the restriction PLUS an internal by-pass system that is regulated by spring pressure (limits max pressure). A liquid and not be compressed, be careful.
A safer way to use hydraulics is to use a hand operated piston/pump, pump it up then relieve the pressure by opening a valve for fluid return.
F. Guffey
The hydraulic press ideal would require a general understanding of the closed system that involves a pump with a high pressure (discharge) side and a suction/low pressure (return) side. The amount of pressure created is determined by the restriction PLUS an internal by-pass system that is regulated by spring pressure (limits max pressure). A liquid and not be compressed, be careful.
A safer way to use hydraulics is to use a hand operated piston/pump, pump it up then relieve the pressure by opening a valve for fluid return.
F. Guffey
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Interesting article. I lean on my Rocker Chucker for forming cases, you can get the shovel handle that will help with leverage.
Going from a 416 to a 8mm, I would do that in several steps instead of one big step. The brass would work easier, but you may need to anneal during the forming process.
How many of these cases do expect to do? Is this worth the cost of a decent hydraulic press?
Jerry
Going from a 416 to a 8mm, I would do that in several steps instead of one big step. The brass would work easier, but you may need to anneal during the forming process.
How many of these cases do expect to do? Is this worth the cost of a decent hydraulic press?
Jerry
Thanx for the help
Thanx for the help. I watched the Dillon/hyd. lashup work, but loading plastic shotgun hulls seems a bit mild to swaging the big Ruger basic down to somthing that looks pretty close to a 8x68M Schuler. I also designed it to work through mil. mauser 98's. I'll check out the Corbin jobs, but I thought they had compound leverages. Maybe a progressive with a long, long handle. I asked here, partially, to get some data on what shank thread I would need. The std. die thread of 7/8th by 14 seems puny with the big Ruger cases. Mr. Lonnie Hummel of the Hornady Custom Desk will help me, but I thought it couldn't hurt to query this board. Of course I'd like to see this wildcat fly, but I really doubt it. The Remmie Big Eight has the long actions covered, and the old full length 98's are getting scarce. If I was rebarreling, I'd just do a 338Win. Even the oldie 8x338 PMM, is about the equal, and it's a cinch to make brass for. I just figured I could make a really herky rimless 8mm mag., that would look and work like an overweight and oversized 270Win., with 185 to 220gr. bullets. So I also ordered a 'go' gauge, from Pacific T. & G., so my gunsmith could replicate this chamber, precisely. Sincerely yours, Carpooler
Thanx for the help. I watched the Dillon/hyd. lashup work, but loading plastic shotgun hulls seems a bit mild to swaging the big Ruger basic down to somthing that looks pretty close to a 8x68M Schuler. I also designed it to work through mil. mauser 98's. I'll check out the Corbin jobs, but I thought they had compound leverages. Maybe a progressive with a long, long handle. I asked here, partially, to get some data on what shank thread I would need. The std. die thread of 7/8th by 14 seems puny with the big Ruger cases. Mr. Lonnie Hummel of the Hornady Custom Desk will help me, but I thought it couldn't hurt to query this board. Of course I'd like to see this wildcat fly, but I really doubt it. The Remmie Big Eight has the long actions covered, and the old full length 98's are getting scarce. If I was rebarreling, I'd just do a 338Win. Even the oldie 8x338 PMM, is about the equal, and it's a cinch to make brass for. I just figured I could make a really herky rimless 8mm mag., that would look and work like an overweight and oversized 270Win., with 185 to 220gr. bullets. So I also ordered a 'go' gauge, from Pacific T. & G., so my gunsmith could replicate this chamber, precisely. Sincerely yours, Carpooler
Mistro-jerrry, as you are aware in the process of manufacturing cases they are annealed 6 times (not the head of the case) I agree with you, when necking a case down in steps the case should be annealed, the time invested is worth it. it would make no sense to put that much time and money into forming case only to have them split during the first firing,
I am not assuming the 416 Ruger is tougher than other cases, all are made of brass, there is a belief when a case is necked down the neck gets thicker (by those that never measure), when a case is necked down the neck gets longer, when a case is necked up the neck gets shorter. When it comes to heavy work with a good lube, I have 40 year old Herters that are more than adequate starting with the 'U' and the double ram.
F. Guffey
I am not assuming the 416 Ruger is tougher than other cases, all are made of brass, there is a belief when a case is necked down the neck gets thicker (by those that never measure), when a case is necked down the neck gets longer, when a case is necked up the neck gets shorter. When it comes to heavy work with a good lube, I have 40 year old Herters that are more than adequate starting with the 'U' and the double ram.
F. Guffey
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