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Help IDing this H R Revolver

3K views 25 replies 12 participants last post by  NDAR15MAN 
#1 ·
Hi everyone, a friend found this in their grandma's closet. Is this an old factory presentation gun? Aftermarket work? Cheap repro? Looks like a H & R Priemier with a square back trigger guard. Anyone have any ideas?
 

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#5 ·
Good morning, other than the name and town of the artisan who applied the gold finish, the six digit serial number (300xxx) and the number 2 on the cylinder face there are no obvious markings . Did not want to muck with the grips to see what might be underneath. I will try to take some more pics later today . Thanks for the reply.
 
#9 ·
It should be marked in small letters on the very top of the barrel rib. I'd need to see more of the gold to determine how it is applied. The close-up of the top latch shows inlaid gold. I thought it was a chinese decal at first but the photo made my heart jump.)
I can't imagine that much work in an H&R but fully understandable in a S&W.
The 'name of the artisan' could effect the value by several hundred percent.
 
#12 · (Edited)
I'm pretty sure that's the name of a jewelry company in Paris. The gold seems to be applied leaf but I can't figure out the punch borders. I'm purely guessing that is a display piece as advertisement for the jewelry company. Possibly as an branch opening in San Sebastian.

The gold borders can't be inlayed because there's no support for it on the corner, and I see a place or two where the gold is gone and there's no 'ditch' left behind. So. it is probably 'appli K', phonetic because I cant get close to spelling it, that is applied by burnishing gold leaf into a lacquer matrix. Those triangle peck marks mean something but I don't know what.

The gun is well used but seems to have been well polished before the decoration. The name on top is in the swale where the maker's name was.
That could be an Iver Johnson. The trigger guard is not original, IMO. Or at least the original has been altered.

SO many guns used the same patents or close variations of the same I&J 'Hammer the Hammer' patents, that sometimes only the single action sear in the very rear of the trigger guard is different.

It's not I&J. They had flat hammers and the only serial numbers on the butt had prefixes.
 
#13 ·
The only cartridge (that large) by Smith and Wesson in a break top was 44 Russian (H&R didn't go that big, Iver Johnsons maybe ?) This one is likely a S&W Model 3 (circa 1870 to 1915) with the S&W logo "removed" for the gold inlay process. There were two (or three) trigger guard designs on the Model 3.

One might contact the Cody Museum and chat with one of their experts.

RJ
 
#18 ·
Mother of Pearl or a good imitation.
Some imitation MOP is pretty good, but the real stuff is cold to the touch and the sharp corners degrade over time with micro chipping.
 
#19 ·
It's a S & W Double Action 4th Model, see here: S&W Break Top....What Did I Buy?

OR:

Also, it's a 5 shot 38 S & W, not a big bore. Look at the photo with the barrel forward (the one with his watch showing), see how small the cylinder is compared to the heel of his hand. The shots that make it look larger are depth of field illusions (like the giant bass when the fisherman holds his arms way forward).
Also, I called and asked Grandma what it was!!;):)
 
#21 ·
Wood Everyday carry Gun accessory Gas Revolver

I have an H&R, but no memory of buying it.
My records show the FFL could not find the serial number.
I can. I just take out the cylinder.
I have Goforth's books on Iver Johnsons, but I see now he wrote about H&R too:
 
#22 ·
On closer look, the back of the trigger does not look like a 4th Model, unless it has been modified. If it were my pistol, I would send these same photos (plus one of the opposite side) to the S & W forum (bunch of knowledgeable guys over there), then I would send a bunch of photos to the S & W historian Roy Jinks, and pay for his research and get a 'factory letter' on it, it's worth the investment. I'm quite certain it is one of the Smith early models, not an H & R or an Iver Johnson.
 
#23 ·
The hammer and trigger say S&W. The ratchet, buffed trigger guard and extractor cam shows a gun considerably worn before refinishing and decorations applied. I'd bet the value of the gun is more in the jewelry trade than the gun trade. The name is associated with fine jewelry done with much the same techniques as seen on the revolver. The gun is done jewelry-style and not as firearms are customarily decorated.
Jinks is the guy to talk to, I think.
 
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