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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 6.5 jap carbine and am having an issue getting it to shoot accurately, it has been quite a while since I worked up any loads for it, last time I put some rounds through I got groups around two inches at 100 yds but had issue with flyers. I worked up my recent load with 120 gr Sierra hollow point boat tails with 38 gr of BLC2 powder, Norma cases, winchester primer, had an issue with flyers again so I seated bullet out father to 2.290 oal, flyers went away, bullets impacted inch and a half high of point of aim, one and three quarter inch groups. I ran out of ammo so I reloaded some more rounds using the same load and components, same oal, this time bullets impacted four inches lower, removed stock and found a high spot where stock was touching the barrel at the end of the fore end, also checked my scope and bases, everything looked good, if this does not solve problem could the scope itself be at fault, it's Bushnell sportsview, bought it about 35 years ago, it was mounted on another firearm before mounting it on the 6.5, any help or advise is appreciated, any way of checking the scope to see if it's the issue.
 

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The Shadow (Moderator)
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A really quick and easy way to see if the "usual" failure is at play.
Put the gun in something stable(rest) and aim at a target with grids(like 1" X 1"). Then adjust the magnification up and down, back and forth. Watch to see if the POA changes with mag.

Per current Hodgdon data, your load is a full grain over max. If the powder is old and thus a quicker burning rate, that could be a REAL hot overload. FYI

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
A really quick and easy way to see if the "usual" failure is at play.
Put the gun in something stable(rest) and aim at a target with grids(like 1" X 1"). Then adjust the magnification up and down, back and forth. Watch to see if the POA changes with mag.

Per current Hodgdon data, your load is a full grain over max. If the powder is old and thus a quicker burning rate, that could be a REAL hot overload. FYI

Cheers
I have a bore sighter that has grids, yesterday I checked the scope but kept the scope at 4x and went back and forth, up and down and everything stayed the same, will try it using different magnification with the bore sighter unless you are saying that I have to shoot the rifle while doing this test. Can't remember where I got the loading data but 39 gr was listed as max, I have been watching a lot of vidoes on YouTube regarding the Type 38 Arisaka, even saw a torture test with some real hot loads that failed to blow it up, cases with my load look fine, easy ejection, however thanks for your concern.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Shoot it with a different scope on it, troubleshooting 101.
 

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The Shadow (Moderator)
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Can't remember where I got the loading data but 39 gr was listed as max
Which shows you how large normal lot variations are, and why this isn't a cut and paste affair. 😉

Remember pressure vessels(which a gun is) exponentially lose lifespan, when you begin over pressuring them. That rifle is no spring chicken to begin with. I'd rather read reports of your latest Target outing, and not another report of someone who thought they did what they always did; and ended up sending the bolt back through their face.

Cheers
 

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When I reloaded for 6,5 arisaka I found the japanese rifles tended to favor heavy bullets over 140 grains. I had at that time alot of 6,5mm pulled cacarno cupro nickel FMJ's. And with the issue Iron sights they came to life with those bullets. But on a sidenote those tiny japanese Type 38 carbines I never quite got them to shot nearly as good as the rifles. I always attributed that to the stock set up in full mil; trim.
Being your rifle has been bobbed for hunting use with a scope the first thing I'd check would be the scope as has been suggested , then the bedding . If your flyers occur as rifle warms up I would suspect a bedding issue if scope is ruled out as an issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
When I reloaded for 6,5 arisaka I found the japanese rifles tended to favor heavy bullets over 140 grains. I had at that time alot of 6,5mm pulled cacarno cupro nickel FMJ's. And with the issue Iron sights they came to life with those bullets. But on a sidenote those tiny japanese Type 38 carbines I never quite got them to shot nearly as good as the rifles. I always attributed that to the stock set up in full mil; trim.
Being your rifle has been bobbed for hunting use with a scope the first thing I'd check would be the scope as has been suggested , then the bedding . If your flyers occur as rifle warms up I would suspect a bedding issue if scope is ruled out as an issue.
I mounted a different scope on it, nothing has changed, tried H335 powder, groups measured around three inches with 120 gr bullets, about the same with 139 gr Privi partisan bullets. Years ago I used to get better groups with IMR 4320 powder, I use that same powder with my 7.7 jap but am getting low and it has been impossible to find. Checking my records I noticed that those more accurate loads were seated to 2.850 oil, am going to see if going back to that oal will help.
 

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No one local seemed to collect Japanese WWII rifles in the late 70’s/early 80’s Neither am I, but have an eye for a really clean/original rifle or that era.

Gun shop I worked summers (teacher) had the nicest 38 I had seen. Mum, about 98% condition, uncut, unmolested, still had the dust cover. No clue at the time to the born on date (and it’s gone, so can’t figure it out now) but had that kind of ‘not-at-war’ kind of fit and finish….and the “never went to war” condition.

By memory, going to say Nagoya (circles in circle stamp) and before things got hectic (maybe 1929-1930)

No capture papers, no seller’s story, no idea how it got from there to here or why it looked nearly unused.


Had to buy it and shoot it. Rifle wanted to shoot 160gr. (Hornady) bullets, even though I would have preferred something else. As in any such “argument”, the rifle had the final say….so 160gr. Hornady got used.


For what I was doing, more accurate trajectory-challenged was more fun than less accurate with flatter trajectory.

So basically “lofting” along at 2050-2100fps with 28.5gr. of IMR 4064 was a bit like paying lawn-darts, but if you could see it to aim at it, could hit it.
 

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Also you may since you noted OAL length with bullet that seating out bullet can have magical effects for accuracy . The throat on military rifles tends to be quite longer than sporting rifles. Your typical german made 98 mauser from ww1 to ww2 will have a throat 2 to 3 calibers long. The japanese rifles may have a similar trait for same reasons. I have restopred several dozen gew98 rifles that were war bond rifles that had muzzles and throats plugged with hardened rods. Muzzles had to be counterbored and I used a 22 rifle to knock the plug out of the throat. I more often than not found that the throats were damaged such that to have any accuracy bullet needed toi be seated at max or above to do anything meaningful on target.
 

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IMR4320 was discontinued a year or two back. Varget and VV N140 may serve instead.
 

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I agree with fastfreddy. The heavier bullets seem to work best in these rifles. The heavy bullets will align with the original sights and seem to group better. When I was in high school I found a 6.5 carbine in a pawn shop with a sporter stock for 12 dollars. It would put 5 rounds of Norma 139 gr. bullets inside a dime at 50 yards, all the holes would be touching each other. The scope cheap, correct for a 12 dollar rifle and a high school kid. The groups would open up at one hundred yards but I believe this was due to the cheap scope.
 
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