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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all! I usually post over on GunBroker's chat rooms, but I have been checking out this forum from time to time for a while now.

I finally registered and wanted to see if anyone here might have something to add to this question. The text below is duplicate of the posting I made "over there".

I was wondering if anyone had any experiance loading .38Spcl. with 000 Buck. Can it be done? or is the charge needed use up too much space to load two 000 balls? How about data for .357 Mag?:confused:

Remington used to have a Law Enforcement Use only Multiball load for .357 Mag. with 2 70Gr. balls of 000 Buck. I have two boxes of this in pretty good condition and don't want to disassemble what I think will be a collector's item one day, if it isn't already.


Thanks in advance for all of your sage advice and wisdom!

Matt
 

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Matt,yearsd ago I used to load "00" or "0" in 357 cases useing the speer shot shell cups,this were bedroom loads and work well at that distance,will check my load book for load info,I did use 231 for the powder.
 

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#1 Buck is the largest that will fit in the Speer .38 / .357 shot capsules. At least, the largest I can fit in the ones I have. 3 of them fit in there. Can't recall what charge I used (Unique), it was slightly heavier that that printed on the back of the capsule container.
DMC
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I recieved this reply when I posted the question elsewhere

I use a Lee .36 round ball mold. I don't load them very hot. I use 2 in a 38 spl case and 3 in a 357 mag case. I load them with a flat wad cutter seating stem. I seat the top ball so a can crimp it in the middle. I usually load 3gr Bullseye in the 38 spl and 3.5gr in the 357 magnum.
This seems OK to me, my Hornady book lists 4.6 Of Bullseye being max for a 140 Gr. Cowby FP Bullet and 3.0 being max for 148 Gr. wadcutters.

I guess the question kinda boils down to how much friction area the buckshot has vs. these other rounds?

Thanks for the replies, but I also should have been more specific, I wanted to do this without shot capsules, pretty close to what is listed in the quote- any thoughts?
 

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Matt,

That sounds about right. The two big factors are how much case capacity the 'bullets' use up and how much they weigh.

The weight of round balls will always be less than a bullet of the same length, so no problem there.

If the length of the bullet colum is similar to, say, a full wadcutter then you would be pretty safe in looking at the data for that bullet as starting loads (since the roundballs will weigh even less).

Lube? Round balls won't hold much lube, perhaps a dab put in between them might help. Leading will quickly occur if velocities are pushed. Or perhaps a Wonder Wad between the bottom two balls. Hmm.....

Sounds like a neat project and I have been intending to work up something similar with my .45 Colt but haven't gotten to it yet. Let us know what you find. I'd start with .357 cases first, as you're dealing with a stronger gun than a .38 special.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Mike G

Lube? Round balls won't hold much lube, perhaps a dab put in between them might help. Leading will quickly occur if velocities are pushed. Or perhaps a Wonder Wad between the bottom two balls. Hmm.....
Mike-X-Ring!!!!! The Wonder Wad was something I was musing over as well!:cool:

The other very solid point is the overall length of the two balls and amount of space taken up by the powder in a .38 case- (I don't have any of the components handy to check this out at the moment...) What happens if two balls turns the charge into a compressed load?
I'll have to look at this a little further, and most likely I will start out with about a 2.5Gr charge of bullseye.

Back to the Wonder Wad though, I may just have to use one, mebbe even two, in .357 because I'm intending to only load two balls- there is going to be some space and I want the top round to seat correctly, and the bottom to not interfere with the charge.

"Hmmmmmmmmm" is right!

I wont have any answers until Tues, gotta go play Army this weekend!
 

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I buy Hornady 000 buck or .350" muzzleloading balls, either will work. I have shot more than 1,000 loads using these criteria:
CCI SP MAG primers
6.0gr 800X
three 000 buck (.350") balls crimped over the crown of the third ball. This load will get me 992fps from my 4" GP-100. Lots of fun. At 25yds the three bullets will print a 4-5" group usually in a straight vertical line.
-Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #8
OK- I loaded two 000 Buck into some Federal +P+ .38 Spcl cartridges using 2.8Gr of Win 231. In between the two balls I used a little "Bore Butter" as a lube, heck, I figured if it works good for Black Powder, why not this application? I also decided to use magnum primers (CCI 550) because of the small amount of powder involved, I've asked one of my local reloading gurus about it, and he said that using them was okay, and not to be too worried about case pressures, but to still be alert for any signs of excess pressures. I'll be headed to the range sometime this weekend, so I'll let y'all know how this works out. I just wish I had a chrono to check velocity.

BTW- I'm going to try these out of a Taurus M-85 with a 4" Bbl, and my S&W M&P Mod. 10 with a 3.5" Bbl. (My father-in-law "borrowed" my S&W Mod 27 with the 6", or else I'd try that too)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
OK-

Finally got to the range yesterday, and the loads shot "OK". As I kinda suspected when I loaded them, the Bore Buttered ones smoked quite a bit, but there was no leading to speak of. The non-lubed variety leaded very little, but leaded the barrel all the same. Performance was also "OK", both loads shot about 8" low at 25 Yds. I am going to develop this a little more, stepping the charge wieght up .1Gr increments until I find a load that will shoot less than 3" low. I don't really think it will take much, probably around the 3.3Gr mark. Case pressures were not an issue, but I will step down to non-magnum primers, seeing as how I did load 6 with non-mag primers and did not notice any difference in ignition or performance.

Matt
 

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In the .38 Special I load two cast .360" round balls, lightly tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox on top of any charge which is safe and appropriate for a flush-seated, 146-gr. double-end wadcutter. This works fine as the two balls have about the same weight as the wadcutter, give or take a grain or two, and protrude about the same amount into the powder space when seated.

For my Colt OP and Ruger revolvers I load either 3.7 grs. of Bullseye, 4.2 grs. of W-W231, or 4.5 grs. of PB or SR-7625. These are full-charge loads and should not be exceeded.

I expand the mouth and place the first ball by hand, sprue up, then stack the second ball on top sprue down and guide both together into the seater die, so that the case mouth just slightly protrudes over the radius of the "top" ball. I then separately crimp in the Lee Factory Crimp die, which has a carbide profile-sizer, to eliminate any case bulges.

While three balls will physically "fit" in a .357 Magnum case I do not recommend attempting to assemble a payload of this size, approximately 210 grains, in the absence of pressure-tested loading data from a RELIABLE source.
 

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I experimented with them mostly for curiosity. I'm not sure what practical use they have.
 
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