Shooters Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,862 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Was at my sons two weekends ago and he gave my a box w/ his wifes 308 brass ion it. There were about 25 cases and I had a few more range pickups I added before resizing/tumbling.


The Hornady brass was 6/34 cases. When I tried to prime w/ my RCBS primer I could not get those 6 cases to prime. They are just like military w/ the crimp that needs removing. Hard as I squeezed the primer would not enter the pocket.



I suppose those were in the cases I added from a range.


Anyone else ever run into that situation??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
I have run into crimped primers in "brand name" brass. I just assumed it was military sale brass that was surplus.
Since I routinely equalize primer pockets it isn't a problem but if you don't include that step in case preparation it could be a surprise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
573 Posts
Some makers when loading ammo with "lead free" primers for some reason crimp the lead free primers in place , I'm not sure why and this may not be the only reason for crimped primers in non military cases.
I do know that every case needs to be inspected , not only for crimped primers but also Berdan primers .
I don't know why but Berdan primed domestic ...or what used to be domestic made brass has started showing up .

My advice is to carefully inspect every piece of brass for Berdan primers , crimped primers and primer size .
A lot of 45acp brass is showing up with small primers instead of large primers .
Get a crimp removing tool to deal with the crimped primers and then use a primer pocket uniforming tool on every one ... you can't reprime them otherwise .
Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
If UncleNick sees this thread, he can explain it. He wrote a recent comment on lead free primers in which he explained (I may not get right) that lead free primers have a different ignition chemistry and produce a more sudden thrust impulse, almost launching themselves out of the primer pocket...thus the crimp.

I suppose lead free primed ammo could be a marketing tactic similar to **sugar free, all natural, child safe.** UncleNick’s comments were the first I have heard of this. I think reloaders should be on alert...**lead free primers** probably means crimped primer pockets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,097 Posts
Someone else on this site put me onto the idea of using a countersink drill bit chucked into my drill press to remove primer crimps in 5.56 brass. I don't even really look for the crimp anymore. I just run all the cases that I pick up through this process. I have been using some bright colored nail polish on the heads to easily see which have been reamed after picking up after a shooting session. I think that if you run into many of these in .308 the same procedure would work. May even be able to do it with a hand drill if you are careful to make sure everything is as straight as possible.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,164 Posts
If UncleNick sees this thread, he can explain it. He wrote a recent comment on lead free primers in which he explained (I may not get right) that lead free primers have a different ignition chemistry and produce a more sudden thrust impulse, almost launching themselves out of the primer pocket...thus the crimp.

I suppose lead free primed ammo could be a marketing tactic similar to **sugar free, all natural, child safe.** UncleNick’s comments were the first I have heard of this. I think reloaders should be on alert...**lead free primers** probably means crimped primer pockets.

That's correct. The sensitizer in lead-free primers is DDNT, which is a higher brisance explosive than the lead styphnate used in conventional non-corrosive primers is. When they first came out, it was in handgun cartridges and the early 45 Auto NT (non-toxic) ammunition all had large pistol primer pockets with a 0.125" flash hole instead of the standard 0.079" flash hole, so they had about 2.5 times more cross-sectional area to let gas through. If they didn't do that, the primers would back out so hard it would jam revolvers and let the primers fall out in self-loaders. Moving to small pistol primers was the cure for the 45 Auto.

The crimped commercial cases may be due to using DDNT primers. I don't know what the new Federal Catalyst primer will require. Some brands of cases are softer (Hornady) and they may crimp to insure against a small amount of primer pocket expansion in full pressure rifle loads. But that's just speculation on my part.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Magilla26

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,862 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Tried to contact Hornady by phone as no email was offered on the site. Was advised to use [email protected] ..


Emailed question about crimped primers.
Answer "...the primers on 308 are staked due to popularity of AR now."


Amen
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,731 Posts
. . . The Hornady brass was 6/34 cases. When I tried to prime w/ my RCBS primer I could not get those 6 cases to prime. They are just like military w/ the crimp that needs removing. Hard as I squeezed the primer would not enter the pocket. . . .
Please do not seat primers this way. It will only result in a ruined primer or worse, one that will ignite. Primers are meant to slide into the primer pocket with a bit of resistance. Anything else, find out what's preventing this and eliminate the cause.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,097 Posts
Please do not seat primers this way. It will only result in a ruined primer or worse, one that will ignite. Primers are meant to slide into the primer pocket with a bit of resistance. Anything else, find out what's preventing this and eliminate the cause.
I fully agree with this. I am doing a lot of 5.56 currently. Loaded 200 yesterday and had three of those 200 where the primer would not go in. I had reamed these pockets and still would not go. I saved those separate from all others, as I would like to see if I can find out what is going on with them. These cases are so inexpensive that it is easier to discard them rather than messing up primers of having one detonate. I have had a half way seated primer lock up my shellholder and did detonate upon trying to manually drive it back out. Not too bad using proper precautions, but it always bothers me when it happens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,731 Posts
I read your post where you use a countersink to ream primer pockets. That usually takes out the crimp. I have a primer pocket swage. It doesn't always remove all of the crimp so like you, I follow it up with a countersink ream.
One thing I have learned about removing live primers is to operate the decapping pin with a slow, even pressure until the primer pops out. A live primer will take a lot of pressure without igniting. It might come out of the pocket distorted but it won't ignite. What ignites it is impact.
 

·
Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
Joined
·
10,453 Posts
I give all my picked up "military brass" to the MCSD and they ship it off to get reloaded for training ammo.

I hate dealing with unnecessary steps in the reloading scheme of things :mad:

YMMV :D

RJ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,097 Posts
I read your post where you use a countersink to ream primer pockets. That usually takes out the crimp. I have a primer pocket swage. It doesn't always remove all of the crimp so like you, I follow it up with a countersink ream.
One thing I have learned about removing live primers is to operate the decapping pin with a slow, even pressure until the primer pops out. A live primer will take a lot of pressure without igniting. It might come out of the pocket distorted but it won't ignite. What ignites it is impact.
That is true if you don't have a primer stuck halfway in the pocket so that you can't remove the case from the shellholder. In that case, the only way I see to remove the primer is to manually put a deprimeing rod in the case and tap it out. Most of the time, I can do this with no problem. As you say, go easy and steady pressure, but I had had the occasional detonation in doing this. Never had this problem at all before I began messing with military brass. I see it as just an occupational hazard that pops up from time to time:)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
274 Posts
I live in a border town up here on the Candian border. We have a large contingent of US Border patrol.US customs.USCG and local police and sheriff office. We even have a US army National Guard unit here. All the agencies use our range for qualifying. So I have run across a lot of 5.56mm Brass,and .308Win brass. You would be surprised how much is made by Speer, Federal, Hornady etc. All of this brass has a primer pocket that is swaged as per their contracts. I have picked up all sorts of this brass for reloading and always swage the primer pockets with my RCBS tool, and then afterward ream with a hand held primer pocket reamer. No failures yet and i am talking thousands of rounds over twenty years of picking it up. I assume that all brass from my home range has had their primer pockets swaged if 5.56mm, or 308. I have picked up some military 45ACP, and 30-06 and check these carefully also then sort accordingly. Always use your best judgement when picking up range brass.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,097 Posts
I live in a border town up here on the Candian border. We have a large contingent of US Border patrol.US customs.USCG and local police and sheriff office. We even have a US army National Guard unit here. All the agencies use our range for qualifying. So I have run across a lot of 5.56mm Brass,and .308Win brass. You would be surprised how much is made by Speer, Federal, Hornady etc. All of this brass has a primer pocket that is swaged as per their contracts. I have picked up all sorts of this brass for reloading and always swage the primer pockets with my RCBS tool, and then afterward ream with a hand held primer pocket reamer. No failures yet and i am talking thousands of rounds over twenty years of picking it up. I assume that all brass from my home range has had their primer pockets swaged if 5.56mm, or 308. I have picked up some military 45ACP, and 30-06 and check these carefully also then sort accordingly. Always use your best judgement when picking up range brass.
Good deal! I have really just gotten into dealing with 5.56 and may have to revise the way that I handle crimped primers. I usually only get about 1 in each 100 that give me any problem. So far, I just throw these into a separate bucket and work on them as a rainy day project. I thought of just discarding them, but curiosity causes me to want to understand why they are giving me trouble.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
I have never used a swager but I have read articles that say the crimping process can warp the pocket at times. That makes the swager better than my uniforming reamer but I have never had any problems seating primers once the pockets are uniformed. It reams the pocket depth and the radius at the same time and stops on the shoulder of the reamer.
Does the uniforming tool change the depth and make the radius on the pocket?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,731 Posts
That is true if you don't have a primer stuck halfway in the pocket so that you can't remove the case from the shellholder. In that case, the only way I see to remove the primer is to manually put a deprimeing rod in the case and tap it out. Most of the time, I can do this with no problem. As you say, go easy and steady pressure, but I had had the occasional detonation in doing this. Never had this problem at all before I began messing with military brass. I see it as just an occupational hazard that pops up from time to time:)
Assuming you have a single stage reloading tool, for 5.56x45, I deprime stuck cases due to proud primers on my single stage reloading tool. Insert the shell holder with the stuck case in the ram. Take the FL resizing die and lower the decapping stem as far down as possible. Mount the resizing die on the press and raise the ram with steady pressure until the primer pops out. Resize the case for proper neck tension.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top