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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
New member here , also somewhat new to shooting competitively. I just got a new rifle, chambered in. 223rem and was cleaning it before bringing to the range to break in this weekend. My question is how clean should I get the bore ? I've been alternating between solvent soaked patch and dry patch until it comes clean, then brush about 25 strokes, and repeat . Every time after brushing it take about 4 to5 patches to be clean again but will be dirty after brushing each time . I've repeated this cycle close to 20 times and still getting what seems like a lot of powder out. I'll attach a picture for reference , in between each set of patche's was 25 stroked with a bronze brush .



Using hoppes number 9
Savage axis 223rem
Brand new never shot
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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That's because your brushes are wearing and leaving particles in the bore.... which makes patches discolored the next time you run them through.

Honestly.... ditch the Hoppe's. Great stuff.... a hundred or so years ago. There are much better bore cleaners now. I've personally given up on brushes, except as a last resort. Run a GOOD modern solvent through the bore, WAIT, and then run a clean patch through. Easier, simpler, and cheaper in the end. Repeat as necessary. In the end..... the barrel will "tell" you how much it "likes" to be cleaned, for best accuracy.

I personally like the Bore-Tech products, but to each his own. I will probably never use all the Hoppe's I have, except maybe on shotguns.

I also equate the various "barrel break in" procedures with different forms of voodoo, but if it makes you happy, go right ahead. Savage isn't known for the smoothest barrels around.

Good luck.
 

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1. Are you sure the residue you are seeing is burnt powder residue if that is a NEW Rifle?
2. What type if silvent are you using?
3. If the solvent is a Copper Removal type, you may be seeing residue left by the Bronze (Copper-Tin Alloy) brush,
Try using a none Metallic Bristle brush.
4. have you visually inspected the bore?
 

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The Shadow (Moderator)
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MikeG gave you the best answers possible.

Hoppes #9 is junk.
Brushes were invented, because Hoppes is junk.
Break-in is nonsense
Salvage QC looks for things as well as Stevie Wonder.

Go shoot that thing, and let us know what you think. 😊


Cheers
 

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Get a Bore Snake and relax 👍
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Not sure what the residue is . Using hoppes no. 9 solvent . Using bronze brushes . Bought the rifle new from cabelas on Monday haven't been to the range yet.

I will try a nylon brush as suggested and different solvent and see what happens. I will be shooting it this Saturday regardless and will see what happens
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Keep scrubbing with a bronze brush, and it will soon be the next bore size smaller. Guaranteed!

Stop "cleaning," and head to the range. Your "barrel break in" will last until the end of time, at this rate ;)
 

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+1 with what the other guys said for a 223. Throw the brush away. Get a good solvent. I use wipe out patch out. I used to be a barrel scrubber but found I could get it just as clean or cleaner with the above and never touch a brush.

As far as break in processes, I have done the long drawn out process and I have taken them out and just started shooting. Not really seen much of a difference. I have gotten more improvement from stock fit issues and load development.

Which Savage did you get?
 

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The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
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Well.......to each his own. Being an old fart and using Hoppes #9 for the past 60+ years, I STILL use it as a solvent and yes, the copper residue you're seeing is the result of the bronze brush stain left in the bore after using it.
My cleaning routine after a day at the range is to swab the free standing carbon from the bore with a couple of dry patches and then hit it with a foaming bore cleaner. Let it sit for an hour and then chase out with patches until dry. Foaming cleaner and wait another period, sometimes several hours. Wipe out. Continue until all traces of copper are gone and only black carbon showing up. Saturate patches with Hoppes and wet bore. Let sit for half day or overnight and wipe out. Repeat until patches are clean. If bore is still being stubborn, will insert a tight bronze (nylon brushes are worthless) brush for about dozen strokes and begin the Hoppes routine until parches are clean. Takes several days generally to get the bore clean enough to consider vault storage. LONG LIVE HOPPES!!!!!
 
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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Hoppe's will, eventually, dissolve copper. Eventually. Wet a bore with it and wait several days, then patch out. Should have a green-ish hue to the patch if there was copper in the barrel. Repeat as necessary. However, if you'd like to get the copper out before the end of next month, then the newer stuff is faster, indeed. ;)

The foaming bore cleaners can get an amazing amount of filth out of old military surplus guns, in a very short time.

Once in a great while, for a terribly stubborn bore, I will wrap a cleaning patch around a ratty bronze brush that is too small otherwise, and smear some 'bore paste' (there are several brands) on it and scrub a bit. That can help get through layers of crap that the solvent is not dissolving quickly enough. Other than that exception, and barrels with lead fouling from shooting cast bullets, I'm done scrubbing barrels. I literally cannot remember the last year I purchased a bronze brush.

Whatever floats your boat, that's the cleaning method you should use ;)
 

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I do a very slight break-in procedure. A while back, an article I saw suggested that the burnishing done by jacketed bullets in a bore would generally reduce copper fouling a bit, but you have to clean completely between each burnishing shot and the author's opinion was he never saw further improvement after about the sixth shot. So what I do with a new barrel is decide what powder I will use and I do the usual minus 10%-from-published charge with one round, then increment the next 5 rounds by 2% of max to give me a pressure test ladder of just six shots to let me look for obvious pressure signs. I start at the bottom, loading to be sure the powder is back over the flash hole in the case (creates worst-case maximum pressure for the charge), and clean completely between each pressure test shot. Unless I see pressure signs, that gets me my six break-in shots and confirms the range of charge weights in the book are safe with my combination of primers, cases, bullets, and my powder lot number.
 
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I break in barrels by shooting groups. They tend to tighten up just about the same time as i find a good load. ;)

I clean MY guns with Bore Snakes and use a rod and chemicals on rifles that need it. (some certainly do, but it didn't happen in 20 rounds.)
 

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The Shadow (Moderator)
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I do a very slight break-in procedure.
As do I.
1) Buy new rifle.
2) Clean new rifle.
3) Go shooting until groups fall apart.

;);):D:D
 

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Psssst... the brass brush is leaving stuff in your clean barrel ...stop it ! Do this:
1.) Solvent and brash brush
2.) solvent / CLP soaked patch .
3.) Dry patch
4.) lightly oiled last patch for storage or if you live in Louisiana (high humidity & rust capitol )

My Dad insisted we didn't eat supper until the guns were cleaned oiled and put away ...
He did not , and I do not , believe in the "I never clean my gun" philosophy ... he din't want dirty rusty guns and I'm going to have to stick with that method .

ATTABOY ... being in the "gun cleaner's club" will serve you well . My father and grandfathers guns are all in great condition and I will pass them on to my kids.
Gary
 

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Eliminate copper, the main reason for cleaning.

I switched to de-coppering powders when they came out and now use them exclusively. Copper buildup is completely eliminated when shooting 3000fps loads. Powder fouling is reduced and appears to stabilize. I used to clean at no more than 50 rounds but with de-coppering powders, cleaning seems to make no difference in groups even after 100 rounds.

To note just how big a deal this is, all Vihtavuori powders include a de-coppering agent.

I believe traditional break in procedures were geared toward preventing copper buildup before burnishing and to slow down over enthusiastic shooters from smoking their brand new barrels.
 

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I have Sweet's and Pro Shot, and another that I broke the bottle on but saved a good bit...so don't remember the name. Is Pro Shot Copper Remover any good?

I have switched to mostly nylon bristle brushes in most calibers. I am only missing a couple.

How is Pro Shot (the newer stuff)?

Thanks
 

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The Shadow (Moderator)
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Haven't used the PS stuff, but honestly Sweets is a nice product.
Obviously it's Ammonia, so it's not something you want to slather yourself with.;)
Because of that, if you are in humid country then make SURE to not leave it sitting in the bore overnight; and get ALL of it out when you are done. Otherwise it will grab moisture from the air and begin to rust on things.

If you live(like many of us) where a humid day is 20% RH, then this isn't a thing of concern.

Cheers
 

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My barrels need to be clean enough to shoot predictably well. The Bore Snakes fill the bill so that's what I use.
If the guns are being critically inspected by bore scope, the answer would be considerably different.
 
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Every now and then you need to get the carbon and copper out. Ditch the conventional bore cleaners and use a foaming bore cleaner. Less steps, less mess. and fewer headaches.
 
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