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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I will say I am not into modding guns or loading my own rounds, but i would like to get into reloading someday. Anyway, for a stock gun and a quality factory load (I have used Remington accutip rounds in the past. Expensive but they seem to work well) how is this setup: Browning Eclipse M-1000 stainless .300 WSM with a Leupold VX III 6.5-20x50mm LR scope. Also, how heavy of a round should I be shooting? I am thinking a 150gr.? I would like to use this setup to shoot 500+ yards confidently with practice, practice, practice of course. I shoot deer mostly but would like to get into more long range game shooting. Let me know what you guys think, I am by no means an expert so any input would be appreciated.
 

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The only thing I can offer is that the 150gr bullet typically doesn't have a great BC, in that caliber. Might want to go up to a 165 or 180gr, for truly long-range shooting. Just remember to ask yourself whether a 500 yard shot at game is "hunting" or "shooting"...and whether or not the big game we hunt is deserving of more respect than to just be "shot" at.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I think it is giving the game more respect by adding distance. How hard is it to kill something at 200 yards? In my opinion that is less sport that 500 yards. Look at bow hunting, that is hard as ****, to make a rifle hunt difficult, add some distance. I just thought the 150 grain would have less drop, probably would not have enough energy at 500+ yards for a good kill though I suppose.
 

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Forget bullet weight, shoot what is the most accurate. You need to be MOA or better at 500 yards to kill big game, just remember that.
 

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I will say I am not into modding guns or loading my own rounds, but i would like to get into reloading someday. Anyway, for a stock gun and a quality factory load (I have used Remington accutip rounds in the past. Expensive but they seem to work well) how is this setup: Browning Eclipse M-1000 stainless .300 WSM with a Leupold VX III 6.5-20x50mm LR scope. Also, how heavy of a round should I be shooting? I am thinking a 150gr.? I would like to use this setup to shoot 500+ yards confidently with practice, practice, practice of course. I shoot deer mostly but would like to get into more long range game shooting. Let me know what you guys think, I am by no means an expert so any input would be appreciated.
The rifle and scope are up to the job but you'll probably need at least a 165 grain bullet at those distances (180 would be better yet). However, from your post I am not gathering that you are up to the task at that range yet (and I mean this with all due respect). It will take hundreds/thousands of rounds downrange to become proficient at that range from a just from the bench. It'll take longer yet to get that good in field positions. You owe it to the deer to have the skill and not rely on luck.

Also, shooting a deer at 500 yards is fine if you have the skill and thats all the closer you can get. BUT please dont be one of those guys that looks for a long shot just to say you hit a deer at X yards.
 

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I think it is giving the game more respect by adding distance. How hard is it to kill something at 200 yards? In my opinion that is less sport that 500 yards. Look at bow hunting, that is hard as ****, to make a rifle hunt difficult, add some distance. I just thought the 150 grain would have less drop, probably would not have enough energy at 500+ yards for a good kill though I suppose.
So, getting within bow range, say 40 yards or less, is very hard and a true measure of a hunter, but to be a good hunter with a gun you have to shoot at game that is more than 200 yards away? This must be some kind of sporting world paradox of which I am not yet aware!

I am all in favor of someone making a long-range, ethical shot on any big-game animal, as long it results in a predictable and expedient killing of that animal. I applaud someone who puts in the practice required to consistently hit targets at 300, 400, 500 yards and if they can consistently shoot well enough to harvest the game they are hunting, at any given yardage, I'm fine with it.

The thing is, when you get far enough away from a deer or elk or wild boar, what you're doing is "shooting", not hunting. If you must employ a great understanding of external ballistics, laser rangefinders, mil-dot scopes and bullets designed for long-range TARGETS, not game animals, you have accomplished something significant, but you have not hunted, you have merely shot and killed.

Is the guy who pushes the button to launch a SCUD missile from a naval vessel 12 miles off-shore the same as a soldier who goes house-to-house, room-to-room, engaging the enemy at 12 feet? I respect both men tremendously, but who is the real "hunter"? Ask both of them the same question and see if they don't confirm my assertion.

Enjoy the shooting sports, including the tremendous challenge of 500+ yard shots, but if you would like to hunt, either grab a bow or at least get within the MPBR of a traditional hunting cartridge/bullet.

Here...you can have this soapbox back...I'm done with it.
 

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I'm all for long range hunting as long as the shooter is a real shooter, and his equipment is up to par. My wife bought me the "Send It" long range hunting DVD for Christmas :D

My chosen long range tool (up to 500 is long for me right now), is a Remington 700 Sendero SFII in .300 Rem Ultra Mag. I'm now loading Berger 210gr VLD's for my LRH/LRT needs. The heavier bullets will allow you to carry more speed further down range. You give up a little muzzle velocity, but the better BC helps get them farther out.

Practice practice practice !!

Anyhow, here is a pic of a 180gr Hornady Interlock, 200gr Gameking and 210 Berger

 

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150 rain bullets do not have a high enough BC a high BC 180 would be a much better choice. Trajectroy is a known amount and easy to account for. The heavier higher BC bullet will have less wind drift and this is a great advantage when shooting long range. The heavier bullet will also hit harder at long range
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ok I will clear something up here. Yes it takes more of a "stalker" skill to get in close range to animals. It takes more shooting skill to get kills out further. The last 2 years my deer I shot were at 180 yards and around 50 yards. I hardly even had to try to get that close to them, I just get the wind in my favor and start walking until I see the deer I am after. Those deer I were in the hills, so it was not hard to get close. (Also, if you hit the meat that close, kiss it goodbye). I have missed out on some good bucks by being in the flat areas and when hunting season is on, unless you have a ghillie suit, your not getting within 300 yards. Being from an area where almost everywhere is flat grain fields that are harvested, you have no cover. No tree stand, there are no trees in the plains of central Canada. I would like a gun where I can practice to be able to confidently take shots at further ranges for 2 reasons: A) Because sometimes you have no where to hide in a harvested field and cannot get close. B) It would be fun for me to get kills at longer ranges. I enjoy making further shots then closer shots any day of the week. Whether I am "shooting" or "hunting" makes no sense. So a hunter isn't supposed to make long shots, he should just save that for the range? I think a good hunter should be able to get close when ever possible, but if not, he should be able to make that long shot.
 

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OK - we've had these ethical long range hunting shots many times in the past and is never resolved between "get closer" shooters and "way out there" shooters. Let's all agree that it takes consumate skill to dope everything out for long range. Some are able to do it - others can't.

The question poised by the poster is what sort of rifle/cartridge/bullet combination would be best for this type of hunting. May we limit our comments to address this inquiry?
 

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OK - we've had these ethical long range hunting shots many times in the past and is never resolved between "get closer" shooters and "way out there" shooters. Let's all agree that it takes consumate skill to dope everything out for long range. Some are able to do it - others can't.

The question poised by the poster is what sort of rifle/cartridge/bullet combination would be best for this type of hunting. May we limit our comments to address this inquiry?

Good advice Kdub
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks Kdub. It is true, I was just looking for some advice and tips and some people went onto a totally different topic. I don't tell you how to hunt or what to do with your guns, don't tell me how to either. Just looking for some friendly advice here!
 

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You have gotten some good advice so far about bullet weight. You need to go with a bullet heavier than 150 and with a good BC to carry it out to long ranges with enough energy to do it's job. Most of the bullet makers have BCs for their bullets on their sites. Also, don't chose a target style bullet just because is has a good BC. You need to chose a round that is made for hunting. Learn your wind drifts and drops and practice in all different settings. Also you need to learn slope angle if you will be shooting up or downhill. Scopes make a big difference at those ranges too. I find it easier to dial a scope in for long shots instead of using those BDC reticles and things of that nature. I have a chart I made with all my drops from 300 to 500 yards in 50 yards increments stuck on the inside of my flip up scope cap. Of course you have to be able to estimate the range accurately or better yet use a good accurate range finder. All this stuff is pretty easy out to about 300-350 yards but once you get beyond those ranges things get tricky. It just takes time and practice and knowing your equipment to shoot or hunt long range. You also have to know your limitations and those can/will change with the conditions. Just my two cents.
 

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You don't need to have a heavy bullet weight, the 155gr Lapua Scenar's have a higher BC than the Sierra Match Kings. I doubt you'll find match ammo foryour WSM without reloading though. Try a spitzer or ballistic tip bullet to get out to 500 yards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks range junkie. Like I said in my original post I have used the Remington accutip rounds and they have less drop out to 500 yrds in both 150 and 180 grain loads that a lot of competitors. Also, ballistic silver tips are a nice round too.
 

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The ballistic silvertips are a nice, accurate round. In MY opinion, however, they are poor rounds on edible game in a magnum-type cartridge. If you catch flesh only on a deer, they perform very well. If you catch a bone however (edge of the shoulder, spine, rib), they usually seem to make a fairly significant mess of the meat.
 

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If your going to hunt/shoot at long range you have to be realistic, even with a flat shooter such as the 300 WSM at ranges beyond 300-350 yds you have to know exactly how far your shooting and a lighter bullet that shoots flatter wont help you at the ranges your talking about.
 

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I have done more than my share of long range shooting in past decades and thank a couple of real shooters that helped me along the way with my schooling of such. To go out and purchase a rifle and scope for long rane shooting is but one small number in the equation of hitting a target some 500 to 800 yards down range.

It takes a long time to develope the skill needed to accomplish this task and it is far from the ability of hunters shooting whitetail deer across grandpa's bean fields at 250 yards. To be able to put a hit on a 6 inch bulls eye at 500 yards 5 out of 5 shots is not like throwing a light switch on.

Now if you watch those guys on the Western hunts using their custom made 7mm mag rifle and the Husky scope, you would think that anybody can accomplish this with just a turn of a dial or two. Trust me it is not that easy shooter's and hunters. Now not to get into ethics but what happens when you miss the vitals on that all important first shot? Oh yeah, you shot again right, in the mean time you have a wounded animal going back into the dark timber.
I may very well have been a long range shooter but never a Loooong Range hunter over 400yards in my youth. Now days that is trim back a bit to 300 yards max.

Now don't get me wrong, I love long range shooting on targets! I just don't like taking chances with animals and besides they are not a threat to our national security anyway. So I don't need to go there and pretend. I adore great marksmanship and the ability of all those shooters, who spend hundreds of hours getting to that level.
 

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If your going to hunt/shoot at long range you have to be realistic, even with a flat shooter such as the 300 WSM at ranges beyond 300-350 yds you have to know exactly how far your shooting and a lighter bullet that shoots flatter wont help you at the ranges your talking about.


Exactly, and heavier bullets have higher BC'c, drift less in the wind and hit harder when they arrive on target....
 

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Thank you, Tracer, for distinguishing between long-range shooting and long-range hunting. You are a person who has done both and has lived long enough to understand that 300 yards is plenty far enough. Hopefully some of these young buck that have perhaps read a few too many sniper books, or watched "Shooter" once too often, will listen to your wisdom and draw a line between the two disciplines.

Why some people want to blur the distinction between shooting and hunting is beyond me. In so many other pursuits, this is easily accomplished, but when it comes to shooting an animal at some measured distance, good sense is lost.

As the OP said, "B) It would be fun for me to get kills at longer ranges. I enjoy making further shots then closer shots any day of the week. Whether I am "shooting" or "hunting" makes no sense. So a hunter isn't supposed to make long shots, he should just save that for the range? I think a good hunter should be able to get close when ever possible, but if not, he should be able to make that long shot."

"Fun" to get kills -- enjoy making further shots than closer shots.

I enjoy "hunting", which is what you do before you shoot. I enjoy bench-rest shooting, which has nothing at all to do with hunting. I do NOT enjoy killing, which is what you reduce hunting to when it is done at extreme range. When I kill an animal, it is done only as a consequence of hunting and then I strive for the most sure and rapid kill possible.

He did get one thing right, saying, "I think a good hunter should be able to get close whenever possible," but then immediately qualifies that statement by saying he should also be able to make that long shot. If he had ended the sentence earlier, he would have been further ahead.

I really don't know why I bother, but this is something I'm passionate about. I don't say this to belittle others or to further any agenda. It's just that I sincerely feel any person who calls himself a hunter owes it to the animal to get in position to make a VERY high percentage shot, and he owes it to HIMSELF...to actually hunt!

See my tag line for advice from one of the wisest gun writers of all time... he had it figured out!
 
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