I picked up a Lyman 2 Die set for .416 Rigby, from Mid South, for $26+change. Now I need to figure out the best way to trim em back so I can at least neck size and seat bullets for my smaller Boer 8 wildcat, necked back up to .416". I will have the same length necks as the old Rigby's, and about the same body taper. What I don't have, is their generous shoulders. My adaption is the same length of the parent .416 Ruger, but it is a different case, now. I do have minimum head spacing, with the small shoulders, though,(much shorter than the Rugers). By trimming back the Lyman Die set, I believe I can do enough with these dies to warrant the trouble. I would like to keep the factory heat treat in the shoulder and neck area of both these dies. So, do you have any suggestions? The 5/8ths difference will mean chopping both dies back up into their threaded shanks. My case uses a 16deg. shoulder, while the old Rigby uses a 45deg. shoulder angle. I don't think it's practical to try and change this shoulder angle, so I'll be just neck resizing, seating, and crimping my wildcat cases, after I modify these Lyman dies. This drill is to make up enough cases to send back to Hornady for a custom New Dimension F.L. sizer die. I can use the generic .416 New Dimension Seater die, as is. This wildcat is on the edge, with this taper. The .375 version would be saner as it still has generous shoulders to head space on. But this .416 has exactly the same H2O capacity as does the .416 Taylor, head spaces on it's minuscule shoulders,and has the original .416 Rigby length necks. So, all those bullet cannelures in .416 will crimp, working through my mil. mauser magazines, and not going past the neck shoulder junction in my cases. I have heard of a putty that absorbs heat, when you torch the die bases, but I don't know how to procure any. Also, is there any way to use molten lead alloy, instead of a torch, before trimming them back in a lathe? thanx in advance, Carpooler.
How to trim die set?
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Dies are a pretty tough group. I think you would be best suited in just having RCBS, Redding, Lyman, Hornady, Lee, or any other die manufacturer make you custom dies. They all make them to whatever specs you want. And they'll be warranteed.
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Try a carbide bit in a lathe, if you have access to one. I have trimmed down an RCBS seater die that way. It sure was plenty hard. Hope you don't need to take much off.
Lee dies are a little softer, for what it's worth.
An abrasive cut-off wheel in a tool post grinder would handle the problem, I'm sure.
Lee dies are a little softer, for what it's worth.
An abrasive cut-off wheel in a tool post grinder would handle the problem, I'm sure.
Got er done
Thanx for the suggestions on this thread. We used a C-6 carboloy bit, to cut the die, in a brass shim stock wrap, in a lathe. Only the Lyman sizer needed any work. We calculated .306" off of it's base, which put the cut into the threads. Of course, using 416 Rigby dies for my widcat, made from Ruger 375 Basics, means that I only get a neck size, seat, and crimp, out of these Lymans. But I got a good neck sizing, correct seating, with a nice roll crimp, right into the 400 gr. RN bullet's cannelures. Since my 'cat' has the identical H2O capacity as the .416 Taylor, but with the half inch long, Rigby, neck, and no belts, as soon as I can get a barrel installed, I'll be up and running. I expect twelve weeks or so, to get a real custom Hornady F.L. die set, but I can live with this adaption until then. With good jacketed bullets running over a buck apiece, I didn't want to mess around with random neck tensions, and wall thicknesses, during my development work.
FWIW, I believe this Lyman 416 Rigby Seater Die would seat and crimp just about any length .416 round. Just like the Hornady New Dimension sleeve seater does. The Lyman Die set, only costs a few bucks more than one of these New Dimension .416 generic seater dies, if you can find someone who even carries that exact number, in stock. I hope some of this helps the next guy, who gins up a new .416 cartridge.
Thanx for the suggestions on this thread. We used a C-6 carboloy bit, to cut the die, in a brass shim stock wrap, in a lathe. Only the Lyman sizer needed any work. We calculated .306" off of it's base, which put the cut into the threads. Of course, using 416 Rigby dies for my widcat, made from Ruger 375 Basics, means that I only get a neck size, seat, and crimp, out of these Lymans. But I got a good neck sizing, correct seating, with a nice roll crimp, right into the 400 gr. RN bullet's cannelures. Since my 'cat' has the identical H2O capacity as the .416 Taylor, but with the half inch long, Rigby, neck, and no belts, as soon as I can get a barrel installed, I'll be up and running. I expect twelve weeks or so, to get a real custom Hornady F.L. die set, but I can live with this adaption until then. With good jacketed bullets running over a buck apiece, I didn't want to mess around with random neck tensions, and wall thicknesses, during my development work.
FWIW, I believe this Lyman 416 Rigby Seater Die would seat and crimp just about any length .416 round. Just like the Hornady New Dimension sleeve seater does. The Lyman Die set, only costs a few bucks more than one of these New Dimension .416 generic seater dies, if you can find someone who even carries that exact number, in stock. I hope some of this helps the next guy, who gins up a new .416 cartridge.
Chucking that die up in collets will run it true and won't damage the threads. Use a carbide insert tool holder and take small facing cuts (about .025 deep) at about 500 RPM. Dies aren't that hard, they won't give you any problem in a good lathe. You can also trim the threads back some after getting to your required length. Deburr and you will be good to go.
Thanx Monty
You pretty much hit the nail on it's head. We used C-6 as my lathe operator didn't think C-2 was up to it. Only glitch, was that we cut cleanly into the threads, and didn't put in a minor diameter shank. However, when I adjusted the dies in my old RCBS compound Press, here, I noted that the sizer lock ring was holding on to the threads, by the skin of it's teeth. There was just barely enough thread left to lock the trimmed die, (.300"), down. But the Carboloy cut, was so clean that the thread cob was fine. One thing I didn't make clear, in my earlier posts, was that to get the rolled crimp, the case necks must be the same length as the half inch long of the Rigby's. A little bit longer works, but you don't get the roll crimp if you're any shorter. Using my press, trimming .030" more, might well have meant that I lost the use of my lock collar. Carpooler.
You pretty much hit the nail on it's head. We used C-6 as my lathe operator didn't think C-2 was up to it. Only glitch, was that we cut cleanly into the threads, and didn't put in a minor diameter shank. However, when I adjusted the dies in my old RCBS compound Press, here, I noted that the sizer lock ring was holding on to the threads, by the skin of it's teeth. There was just barely enough thread left to lock the trimmed die, (.300"), down. But the Carboloy cut, was so clean that the thread cob was fine. One thing I didn't make clear, in my earlier posts, was that to get the rolled crimp, the case necks must be the same length as the half inch long of the Rigby's. A little bit longer works, but you don't get the roll crimp if you're any shorter. Using my press, trimming .030" more, might well have meant that I lost the use of my lock collar. Carpooler.
No problem, Monty
I probably didn't make something clear either. This only does the roll crimp, if the new case being crimped in the .416 Rigby Seater die, has the same, or a bit longer, neck. The 416 Rem. Mag., and 416 Taylors need not apply. I honestly don't know about the .416 Weatherby, or a wildcat made by necking up the 375H&H case, making a long necked 416 Remmie. But if you did make these necks a bit longer, they would crimp, and then blow their shoulders back out, upon firing. They head space on their belts, so it might be a wash, at least for a couple of firings. It was sheer chance that my .374" long 8mm necks and 16 deg. shoulder angles, would end up with the exact same necked up lengths as the old 416 Rigby. My rimless wildcat also head spaces on it's minuscule shoulders.
It would be extremely dangerous to try this with a factory 416 Ruger, as it also head spaces on it's shoulder. Without a belt, pushing the shoulder back to crimp the mouth of a half inch long neck, would generate an extremely dangerous, excessive head space condition. My new Boer .416 case, will therefore be .030" longer than the factory 416 Ruger's. I can do this as forming down in several steps, from the cylindrical basic, gives me a little extra length to play with. Thanx, Carpooler
I probably didn't make something clear either. This only does the roll crimp, if the new case being crimped in the .416 Rigby Seater die, has the same, or a bit longer, neck. The 416 Rem. Mag., and 416 Taylors need not apply. I honestly don't know about the .416 Weatherby, or a wildcat made by necking up the 375H&H case, making a long necked 416 Remmie. But if you did make these necks a bit longer, they would crimp, and then blow their shoulders back out, upon firing. They head space on their belts, so it might be a wash, at least for a couple of firings. It was sheer chance that my .374" long 8mm necks and 16 deg. shoulder angles, would end up with the exact same necked up lengths as the old 416 Rigby. My rimless wildcat also head spaces on it's minuscule shoulders.
It would be extremely dangerous to try this with a factory 416 Ruger, as it also head spaces on it's shoulder. Without a belt, pushing the shoulder back to crimp the mouth of a half inch long neck, would generate an extremely dangerous, excessive head space condition. My new Boer .416 case, will therefore be .030" longer than the factory 416 Ruger's. I can do this as forming down in several steps, from the cylindrical basic, gives me a little extra length to play with. Thanx, Carpooler
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