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A long drop tube will do the same thing if not better.

So we can pack a greater mass into the same volume by using a drop tube, swirling, or vibrating the powder. Let us not forget compressing!

So if I have a vibrator attached to my powder measure the mass for any given charge will be greater with the vibrator on.
Kind of puts a kink in volume measurement.

I still use a scale(weighing powder) to set all of my measure's!
 

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When I use ball powder I never jar the measure, just up with the handle and down. It is much more consistent.

You all have it wrong about cutting grains of stick powder, Cutting grains makes the measure jar too much changing the volume. You tap the handle to settle then jar it hard by cutting. That charge will weigh less in most cases. A few cut grains will not change the burn rate but you have changed the volume. A progressive is the worst since it bounces more. Powder can bridge and you never see it. Dillon has a powder check but many do not. Either way I do not want a measure on my press.

No matter how you call it, a volume of powder needs to weigh the same. Even using a scoop will not be accurate depending on how you use it.

All loads are by weight even if what we use is by volume, you set volume by weight. If you need 41 gr, you set the volume to throw 41 gr.

BP will settle more so when I load BPCR I use a 3' drop tube. A BP measure is still marked in weight but works best by volume. My testing of BP has shown using the measure alone is more accurate then weighing each charge due to the way it burns. I use my Redding measure to throw charges of BP and NO, it is not dangerous. Old wives tale. Yet the measure is set by weight to start. Nobody in their right mind will start by volume alone. Even a scoop of powder is weighed first. I have yet to see a manual that says to use CC's of powder.

Too much is made of 100% load density but that depends on if the barrel length can burn it all. Some powders will not put up with air space and to expect a powder to shoot the same from a 2" barrel as it does from a 24" barrel is hog wash. Powder is not all gone in an inch. Even Bullseye can spit out unburned powder. Much is ignited in front of the muzzle for the flash but some does not ignite at all. Even the little .22 rimfire needs a certain length to fully burn.

Every single cartridge is loaded by volume that is the correct weight. CC's do not fit unless my little dog is weighed to determine the amount of serum to be injected.

To load by volume only without knowing the weight is a disaster behind the curtains.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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"Packing more powder in the case" isn't something that everyone has to do. If you have a cartridge were there are a bunch of suitable powders, then this doesn't really apply so much. But it can be a factor. It definitely is with the .35 Rem. Getting another grain or two in that cartridge can make a substantial difference in ballistics. It is a challenge to load for, because pressure levels aren't real high, nor is case capacity. Getting all the powder to burn consistently, at the velocity level desired, can take some 'fiddling.'
 

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I bought a Lee Powder Measure Kit (the "improved" one) not very long ago for load work-up purposes.
A friend has used one for years (I'm not sure if his is "improved" or not?), but he was monotonous accurate with it checked against my scale back when the question was on our minds.

Anyway, I just tried to see how I could do.
Dipped into a coffee mug. Struck off with a post card (pre Al Gore/internet thingy). 5 charges each powder. Used 4.3 CC dipper ( the big dipper:)).
Alient 2400 (not on the "improved" sliding card?)
55.1 grains
54.5
54.6
54.7
54.9


Unique (the sliding card says 39.4 grains)
33.1 grains
33.8
34.0
33.5
33.1

Is just data is all. I'm not drawing any conclusions from it.
 

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Why in the world would you want to fill by volume in the first place? I have never seen data for despensing powder by volume other than that old Lee set of measure's! I do know how to make a measure to measure by volume, easy but it take's a scale as all data I've ever seen is in weight. If your wanting to load anything on a 308 case by volume, get a 30-06 case and fill with the chg you want in weight and then cut the case down so that the powder is at the top of the cut! Solder a wire handle on it and you have a volume powder measure. If the case is using stick powder, tap the side of the case and settle the powder in the case and trim. I can't see an advantage of any kind in doing that though. Keep in mind that the powder measure does throw powder by volume but you need to weight what it throws to know if it's safe with the data we have.

Oh, back up. I do set the powder measure with a scale for flake and ball powder then throw charges by volume. With the ball powder I check the weight every now and then to stay close. Stick powder won't measure that wel!
 

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Right in the middle of "blowing a stump" I find the drum near empty(dam). So I mosy on over to the neighbor to borrow a cup of powder (black). KABOOM!!! Job done. He would do the same for me in a pinch.
We didn't weigh that cup, but if I was to guess, I think he packed a little "extry" in there? I'll return the favor.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Why in the world would you want to fill by volume in the first place? I have never seen data for despensing powder by volume other than that old Lee set of measure's! I do know how to make a measure to measure by volume, easy but it take's a scale as all data I've ever seen is in weight. If your wanting to load anything on a 308 case by volume, get a 30-06 case and fill with the chg you want in weight and then cut the case down so that the powder is at the top of the cut! Solder a wire handle on it and you have a volume powder measure. If the case is using stick powder, tap the side of the case and settle the powder in the case and trim. I can't see an advantage of any kind in doing that though. Keep in mind that the powder measure does throw powder by volume but you need to weight what it throws to know if it's safe with the data we have.

Oh, back up. I do set the powder measure with a scale for flake and ball powder then throw charges by volume. With the ball powder I check the weight every now and then to stay close. Stick powder won't measure that wel!
Because it is substantially faster. That's why factories do it, and if you pull down any factory ammo loaded with long-stick powders, you may be appalled at the spread in charge weights. But, the factory stuff works well enough (usually). As careful handloaders, we may be horrified at the spread of charge weights in the factory stuff, but what it really tells us is that (usually) fiddling with powder charges to 0.1 grain spread is WAY, WAY down on the list of things that affect accuracy to any notable degree.

The bench rest crowd meters powder by volume, but they do so with powders that meter fairly consistently, and they are also under time constraints at a match to reload between relays. And doing it outdoors where it would likely be more aggravation than it is worth to try and use a scale. They have their loads worked up to hit an accuracy node, or at least be (reasonably) insensitive to plus or minus a tenth of a grain, or whatever their tolerance is. Mind you, they likely are using much better powder measures than our off-the-shelf stuff, no doubt use baffles, and basically have their technique down pretty well by then.

So metering by volume can be done and it can be done accurately enough for many purposes. I think that's what the point of Darkker's post is. You CAN do it - if you want to. Or you can trickle charges. Up to the individual.
 

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RCBS and Redding have the right idea on measures---Cast iron body, steel drums and have one small and one large capacity. A simple baffle at the bottom keeps the weight of the power consistent over the intake. The rest is technique. Part of that technique is to do it with purpose. Throwing powder is noisy and if its not, something must be wrong. Bang on the upstroke to vibrate the powder as it goes in the chamber, bang it down to cut stick powder and vibrate at the bottom so you know it all dumped. If the downstroke is stopped by a 'log jamb' of 4064 or similar, dump that bad charge and re-do. If you back up and try again it'll be wrong!

I have two Redding BR measures with 'micrometer' heads for my common loads. Instead of dialing in my load on the measure, I twist the micrometer head out a turn then back in about three quarters and start weighing. 99% of the time, when the weight is right, the micrometer head is reading the same as is written on the hopper. NEW powders are denser and take a very different setting, sometimes.
Not long ago, I switched lots of 4198 with 42 years difference in purchase age between them. My 'normal' 100% density load weighs .3 grain more now than the old powder but the velocities are the same and the level in the cases are the same. The setting on the measure is different.

Measures work by gravity and not much can go wrong!
 

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When I was participating in benchrest shooting my go to measure was a Redding BR with a 'pill bottle' adapter with a smallish orifice. The baffle works well when using the standard tube reservoir, but was not required with the 'pill bottle' setup. The real plus was the pill bottle allows changing, storing and transporting powders very easy. Other than that difference, my throw method is pretty much as Jack Belk describes above. The other 'feature' that I added was to put a rubber band around the micrometer arm and the back of the measure body. This would keep the charge cavity in the down, or dumped and empty position. This avoided any vibrations between relays and loading the next batch from settling a heavier charge in the first/next throw.I used one 'bang up on the fill stroke and two bangs on the dump stroke for 'empty chamber insurance'. Never had time to weigh charges during a match, and it wasn't needed, volume measure (with the right powders) simply works. You just have to get your micrometer setting first.
 

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Why in the world would you want to fill by volume in the first place? I have never seen data for despensing powder by volume other than that old Lee set of measure's! I do know how to make a measure to measure by volume, easy but it take's a scale as all data I've ever seen is in weight. If your wanting to load anything on a 308 case by volume, get a 30-06 case and fill with the chg you want in weight and then cut the case down so that the powder is at the top of the cut! Solder a wire handle on it and you have a volume powder measure. If the case is using stick powder, tap the side of the case and settle the powder in the case and trim. I can't see an advantage of any kind in doing that though. Keep in mind that the powder measure does throw powder by volume but you need to weight what it throws to know if it's safe with the data we have.

Oh, back up. I do set the powder measure with a scale for flake and ball powder then throw charges by volume. With the ball powder I check the weight every now and then to stay close. Stick powder won't measure that wel!
DF, In the '50's-'60's all the competition shooters used the volume system and they were very accurate and consistent.
 

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I started using one of Neil Jones for BR



Powder Measure


Lester Bruno made one and I have one of those.


Both are Culver type click adjustments.


Short yardage BR with 6ppc you may load 30gr powders. It's pretty ease to get repeatable clicks and clicks are weight of powder.


I used 2 powders with 6ppc, N-133 and Surplus 8208.



50 clicks = 27gr/N-133
51 clicks = 27.4gr/N-133


You could do 51.5 click or 51.3 so you could fine tune any load. I had some of the old T-322 and 50 clicks would be 27.1gr.


I spend lot of time at home running loads click to weight of powder so never weight powder at match. I just dump two and was ready to load. I knew how many grs I load and you had to lift handle same way every time. There was some that use scale for each load so nobody really care how it was done.
 

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The Shadow (Super Mod)
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Discussion Starter #33
Because it is substantially faster. As careful handloaders, we may be horrified at the spread of charge weights in the factory stuff, but what it really tells us is that (usually) fiddling with powder charges to 0.1 grain spread is WAY, WAY down on the list of things that affect accuracy to any notable degree.
.

So metering by volume can be done and it can be done accurately enough for many purposes. I think that's what the point of Darkker's post is. You CAN do it - if you want to. Or you can trickle charges. Up to the individual.
Precisely correct.

Do you like weighing? Then you should continue to do it and be happy.
Looking for a faster method that won't put you at a disadvantage accuracy wise? Then load by volume.
 

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A little note, I had a problem with my Redding measure with large .500 cases. The plastic tube at the bottom was too small. I contacted Redding and they sent me a new tube that slides on the original--free. Now a large case will fit. They were up on the problem.

The measure I never liked was the Lyman. With the Redding I have a little book with settings for each powder and charge and only need a small adjustment for powder lots.
 
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