[Stranger]

This is a continuation of sorts of the "Why Cast Bullets" thread...

Few of us will ever have the opportunity to hunt dangerous game (save our brethren in the 49th State). I can see myself stalking a cape buffalo or perhaps a lion in Africa but that adventure will likely be a safari of the imagination.

Still, we can dream can't we. In that light...

What rifle / caliber / load combo would you use to hunt dangerous african game?

Would it be nuts to assume that a Marlin 1895CB in 45-70 shooting 400g+ hard cast bullets at 1900+ fps would be appropriate for the job?

 

[Stranger]

IDShooter:

What would you use? Bill Lester presented a pretty interesting case for sticking with jacketed only if given a choice. I'm a fan of cast but it's not based on experience with dangerous game; only on what I read.

Arkypete:

Curious... If a BTB cast bullet (or similar) can penetrate a cape buffalo lengthwise why would you switch to jacketed for elephant or rhino? Do they drive deeper or hold together better?

 

[Stranger]

I would feel comfortable knowing that my PH had a Model 70 chambered in .458 Win Mag shooting 500g solids.

But...  that's because I don't know if the Marlin 1895 chambered in 45-70 and launching 420g hard-cast, heat treated, LBT bullets in excess of 2,000 fps+ have any track record in Africa. I also am assuming that the avg. range that buffalo are usually taken maxes out at about 125 yds. Having absolutely no experience with African hunting I could be totally wrong, and probabaly am.

Dan, what about you? What would you use?

 

[Stranger]

MikeG:

I was fortunate enough to shoot about 10 rounds of 510g .458s from a friend's Model 700 onto paper targets. The first round was from a sandbag rest sitting at the bench. The recoil was simply unbearable. It nearly separated my shoulder. The next nine rounds were from the standing position, rifle held tightly to the shoulder and leaning in. It was stout but not nearly as bad. I can't say that it was comfortable but with the juices flowing from either fear or the excitement of the hunt, I can honestly say that the recoil from a .458 would be no more noteworthy than the report.

 

[Stranger]

I've heard that more and more PHs are using 1895Gs as back ups. They cite the fast handling qualities and light weight as reasons. Any truth to that?

 

[Stranger]

That's great Dan! Thanks.

 

[Stranger]

Fascinating thread...

The essence of what I'm reading from the other site is "the sharp shouldered, wide meplat of the 500g+ LBT or Keith style hard cast bullet in 45-70 does not offset the 400 fps velocity deficit as compared to a 500g (in 458 winmag, for example) rounded solid."

Most agree that the 45-70 is adequate under ideal circumstances and presentations but few indicated the round's ability to stop a charge and settle things at close (read: 10-15ft) range.

It's not a unanimous opinion but there seems to be general consensus. Interestingly, leverguns are praised for their handling characteristics and only the caliber and loads are questioned. Several have indicated strong appeal for the Wild West variants of the 1895 chambered in .457 winmag and .50 Alaskan.

I wonder if these thoughts also apply to the great bears?

More...

 

[Stranger]

Alyeska, you prompted another question...

You said "but these guys are betting their life and their client's life." Do we have any idea just how dangerous dangerous game hunting is, not just 100 years ago but, let's say, in the last ten years?  Is it anymore dangerous to PH and client, on average, than "ordinary" hunting injuries due to falls, exposure, scrapes, cuts, bites, stings, etc.? I would be incredibly dissappointed if the facts demstyified or failed to support the romantic notion of the dangerous safari.

 

[Stranger]

PS...

Col. Boddington has an interesting article about hunting bison with the 45-70 in the current G&A. Not as mean or dangerous as cape buffalo but 25% heavier. The 45-70 acquitted itself well.

 

[Stranger]

Dan:

I agree with your insight regarding ego in African big game hunting but there is also an element of wanting to hunt game that can possibly hurt or hunt you back. It's an extension of the principle of the fair chase.

 

[Stranger]

So how would you demonstrate to the game authorities that your hot hand loaded 45/70 complies with the regs... bring a chrony? Or would they only permit factory ammo such as Garretts or Buffalo Bores?

 

[Stranger]

Curious... I've seen videos and read the stories about how the cape buffalo is hunted but how about lions? Are they stalked, baited, driven?

 

[Stranger]

This caught my eye...

For some REAL dangerous game try boar hunting in Israel! You're not just dodging tusks but bombs and bullets too.

http://www.geocities.com/israelhunting/

What a minute...  Is that Kosher?  <!--emo&--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''><!--endemo-->

 

[Stranger]

Was anything left of the poodle?

 

[Stranger]

Who's flaming or knocking on this forum???


The PERCEIVED recoil from a heavy loaded 1895 is equal to or greater than a Rem 700 in .458 winmag. At least that's what my shoulder says. It's a function of total rifle weight, and the hold, as well as stock design, recoil pad shape, surface area and composition not just charge and bullet weight. I also think there's a psychological effect. I always EXPECT the recoil of an elephant gun to be worse than it is. I also always EXPECT the recoil of a levergun to be less than what it is.

 

[Stranger]

What's it like to shoot a 530g Hammerhead from a Guide Gun? Anyone here have actual experience?

 

[Stranger]

Has there been any discussion on the dependability of Marlin leverguns or their derivatives (e.g., Wild West)???

Are failures to cycle (mechanical or operator induced) or catastrophic failures due to over-pressure encountered?

 

[Stranger]

To amplify ID's point...

In this month's issue of Sports Afield Col. Craig Boddington says energy has little to do with charge stopping ability. He adds, it's all about large bullet diameters and deep penetration that destroys vital organs and breaks bones.

 

[Stranger]

That's too bad about Sports Afield. I didn't know. It was a classy magazine. I think Mainer is correct though, for a time it did go adrift in search of a broader audience and it lost touch with its roots..

 

[Stranger]

Didn't get my issue yet. What were the levergun prejudices?