[mattpair]

For the big fellas, a Marlin 1895 shooting something like Garret's 540gr +P hammerheads Some sort of Ghost ring sites(XS, Wild West Guns, Brockman) and a good scout scope (burris or leupold). For the light skinned stuff- a Browning A-Bolt II 30-06 compiste stalker, 180gr partitions with a either a VX III 2.5x8x36 or VX III 3.5x10x50.

 

[Shawn Crea]

Everyone might be interested to read in the June '05 Guns & Ammo the ariticle "Make Mine a .44". It is very pertinent to this discussion, even though it was specifically about the .44 Mag, because it compared penetrations of various cast bullets including Garrett and Buffalo Bore, and a new bullet from Belt Mountain, which turned out to be the penetration king (36" in wet newsprint out of a 4" revolver barrel). And, the same case could be made for the good old 45-70. If the 45-70 was as much of a dud as Meplat made it out to be, it wouldn't be over 100 years old.

 

[raymond d]

personally I like my .460 wby with roll my owns in 500gr. trophybonded sledghammwes for dangerous game. it takes the fire right out of em

 

[Jim Rau]

I guess I am a wuss! I have had to friends who shot the 460 and their advise to me was DON'T SHOOT IT. One said it took him a long time to get over the involentary flich he got just shooting three rounds of 460 WBY. The other gentelman, in his 60's, said he had eye problems for a long time after shooting one round but never sought an medical attn. I suspect a detached retna!
Back to to each his own. I have fired several 416 Remingtons and can handle the recoil so if I were to pick a DG cal it would be that.

 

[RDFinn]

Dangerous Game Rifle

I would like some input from the forum members on what caliber rifle and which bolt action rifle they would choose for hunting big bears. I am thinking of a 375 H&H at the moment but would like the advise of those who have hunted for brown bear. I have always liked Remington rifles but I am feeling that a push feed action might not be the best choice.

 

[alyeska338]

This topic has been bantered about quite a bit in the past. Check the Alaska Hunting Forum and the African Hunting Forum.

 

[raymond d]

I lived and worked in Alaska and had the privledge of hunting big bear. These are amazing animals and a 375 H and H is a really good choice, I believe a better choice would be a 338/378 weathery accumark with a barns or grand slam in the 250 grn range. Mine does a great job

 

[raymond d]

I almost forgot, hunting coastal brown bear means you will be in some of the worst weather and climate a gun can face. I am a real fan of pretty wood and blue steel. Two weeks in the coastal region of Alaska can turn them into a rusty warped piece of junk even with lots of care. Sometimes stainless and composite has its advantages. It is of the utmost importance for your rifle to keep it's zero and function every time . Facing a 1000 lbs. bear with a bad attitude is no time for a failure and it's not for the faint of heart

 

[alyeska338]

I almost forgot, hunting coastal brown bear means you will be in some of the worst weather and climate a gun can face. I am a real fan of pretty wood and blue steel. Two weeks in the coastal region of Alaska can turn them into a rusty warped piece of junk even with lots of care.

Raymond,
I can appreciate your opinion, but believe the statement above is a little extreme. I've hunted coastal Alaska for most of my adult life and use wood/blued steel rifles almost exclusively. They do require more care than a ss/syn rifle, but if you take care of them, they will not turn into junk. Other than muzzle wear and a few scratches and dings, my rifles still look pretty dang good. SS/Syn rifles don't require as much care, but if you will waterpoof the stock, use some paste wax on the exterior metal, tape the muzzle, and wipe the gun down every evening with a dry cloth and some oil, it'll last a lifetime without sacraficing looks or reliability.

 

[MMichaelAK]

I like the .375H&H. And you can easily find ammo for it here. Same with the 30-06 and 220 grain loads or 300 Win Mag. Once you are out of Anchorage, exotics like the 30-378 are hard to find so if you drop your ammo into the river...

raymond, the weather up here can be rough on equipment. I agree with you there. Stainless has been helpful to a lot of people. But even stainless needs to be cared for.

This is not a slam but from my own personal experience. Most of my firearms are blued steel and wood and I spend a lot of time hunting and fishing in Prince William Sound here in Alaska and so far have not had anything rust to junk. But then, I don't let anything sit in sea water in the bilge of my boat. Matte finishes need more care than other blued finishes, my 870 is looking grey rather than black.

Alyeska is right. A little TLC at the end of the day and blued steel and wood survive beautifully in coastal Alaska. If you think about it, how did all those sourdoughs manage to keep a rifle functioning before stainless and synthetic up here?

Besides, the bacon fat smell rubbed on the rifles used to draw the big bears in close to the tent so they didnt have to chase them!
And that was your tall tale for the day.

 

[raymond d]

I have seen quite a bit of complaining about recoil on big dangerous game riles, especially 460's and some 458 winnies. Here is anorher subject that will make some of the purist's whine . Any you guy's ever hear of a brake. I know all the arguments of noise and the questioning of ones manhood for using them. However I like my 460 and I shoot it fairly often. I have shot sage rats and coyotes with it. Heres another thing that may not sit well with some, my wife shoots long strings off the bench with it and can do very well with it.

 

[goldbelt]

rdfinn,
Everbody has their opinion. I have hunted brown bear here in in southeast ak. and hunt it annually for deer and moose. What works and has been proven is the .375 H&H Stainless with synthetic stock and coat your rifle with brakefree before you sight in your rifle so you can put it under the stock. It lasts at least a month before you have to worry about rust. Also pick a rifle for it's reliability before accuracy. Not that accuracy isn't important but your point of impact is fairly large. It needs to feed reliably. It's of the utmost importance that it goes bang when you need it to. Winchester 70, is a popular choice but whatever you get it can be improved by gun smith or yourself by after market items such as extractors,tirggers, and slicking up the feed ramp etc. and giving your self plenty head space for feeding your bullets and picking a scope you can see through in low light and up close and medium range with a good riticle. Just my opinion.

 

[mercmarine]

I'm not experienced, or qualified to post in this thread regarding recomendations for DANGEROUS-Game.

However, In the last 20-or-so-years I have had a few mentors in my life at various times...that would've been qualified to post here.

alyeska338, and a few others seem to be putting forth information based on EXPERIENCE...and that holds alot of weight in terms of REALITY in the REAL-WORLD. Sure....you could kill a Brown-Bear with a .30-06, just like you could kill a Cape-Buffalo with a .375...and you can kill an enemy-soldier with a .22[5.56MM]. But the only thing that KILLING and STOPPING have in common...is the END result. The damage or DEATH that can be dealt-n-doled-out before INCAPACITATION is immeasurable. One thing that I will note that all-three of my mentors have shared with me that was common in regards to a STOPPING GUN-N-CARTRIDGE COMBINATION for Dangerous-Game:

- Controlled-round Feed-N-Extract.
- 21-23" heavy-barrel
- Shorter-than-Norm LOP
- Large-Aperture/Express or Ghost-Ring Sighting
- Launching a .45cal/500grn [or-larger] Projectile

I may or may/not ever get a chance to hunt quadrupeds classified as dangerous game...but if I do - I'll heed the advice of the EXPERIENCED.

 

[raymond d]

I lived and worked in the south east for about 7 years. During that time I has several rifles and pistols. While I agree that blue and wood are perfectually good in those areas and have been for years, I believe if one is going to purchase a rifle just for an alaskan hunt, it may be wise to consider stainless composite. alyeska 338 is quite right when he said with the extra care a wood blue rifle will last for years in that climate. I have a 32 special that spent the best part of 50 years up their. It probably shoots as good today as it did new.

 

[wby proprieter]

Denis D. Lyle writer of, "The Hunting and Spoor of Central African Game" He was a for profit hunter who saw the transition from black powder muzzle loaders to modern smokeless powder rifles. he used .256 gibbs, 275 rigby, and a 7.9mm rifle which he used for all African game. he says "it did not seem to matter what bore i used if the bullet was aligned properly." (see article on page 43-46 in outdoor life dec/ jan 07 issue)

 

[Mr. C]

Dangerous Game

"Dangerous Game", Think I watched that hunting show on TV. And I noticed at the end there's a phrase, "In memory Of". So the real question is how much gun can we carry? Doubt the problem of overkill on an elephant ever occurs. A .50 BMG might be a comforting thing.

 

[Cozy]

I lived and worked in the south east for about 7 years. During that time I has several rifles and pistols. While I agree that blue and wood are perfectually good in those areas and have been for years, I believe if one is going to purchase a rifle just for an alaskan hunt, it may be wise to consider stainless composite. alyeska 338 is quite right when he said with the extra care a wood blue rifle will last for years in that climate. I have a 32 special that spent the best part of 50 years up their. It probably shoots as good today as it did new.

The very first thing I do for my rifle, when going to a place with lots of rain etc. Is to simply take it apart and use a can of quality flat black "Rust-O-lium" paint on the metal. I then wax the wood stock. One does not have to worry about moisture and the flat black will not give off flash like your stainless steel will. Just food for thought gents!

 

[DJWright]

Dan,

You hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned.  I would have to think that the PH would want, first and foremost, a client to have a gun/cartridge that the client could accurately shoot!  Not only for the first critical shot, but for any fast/furious lead-slinging that may happen if things don't go as planned.  After all, in a charge the hunter may have the opportunity to help settle things, as well as the PH.

The PH should be selecting their arms on the same basis, but logically, we might assume they can handle more firepower.  If so, great.  But for the average hunter, things are going to go a LOT more smoothly if they show up with a .338, or even .30-06, that they can handle, vs. a .458 that they are afraid of.  Heck, my .35 Rem through a leopard's shoulders beats the heck out of missing with ANYTHING!

A .45-70 through the shoulder/lung area is much more sporting than a .458 Win Mag through the guts... and frankly, anyone who doubts the effectiveness of hard cast bullets probably hasn't tried them!  I have gotten several FEET of penetration.... from a HANDGUN.... now what sort of increase do I get when I add 100 grains of bullet weight and 800fps from a rifle?????  

The only game I think that I might be a little hesitant to shoot with a heavy cast bullet is an elephant, as I don't know that such a bullet would go through several feet of bone in an elephant's skull (it might but I don't know).  In that case I'd just dispense with conventional lead core bullets as well, and go for a 'monolithic' solid like the Barnes or A-Square.

As Scotty points out, a reluctance on changing what has been proven to work may be why the PH's are staying with .458/500gr. solids.  Frankly, if I had been a PH for years and had learned to use that combination, I'd be a little reluctant to experiment (bad environment to risk a mistake!).  I have also read that some PH's have gone to the Marlins for thin stuff like lions (which really aren't all that big in the scheme of things) but I can't remember where I read it.

Hello Mike, Well put! Have done lot's of bullet testing and will say with the .45-70 you will get over 5 feet of penetration from a heavy hard cast thru wet news print. Much more than a .375 H&H. It will also out penetrate higher velocity rounds even with the same bullets. After about 1,500 fps, penetration actually decreases. The faster it starts, the faster it stops past that speed. The only thing that would be missing for stopping an Elephant immediatly with the .45-70 would be lack of any hydroshock to the brain, which happens at about 2,000 fps and higher. Have read lot's of your posts and can tell you know a bit about the subjects; just put in my 2 cents off your comment for sake of the conversation.

 

[James Gates]

I find this thread interesting and somewhat informative! I am in full agreement with DOK that some of the forums are inhabited by Elitist with Supr-Egos! I have had to deal with it when discussing Dixie's products!
A good example of this thought pattern.....A brass case loaded with a .730"-730 grs hard cast heat treated slug/bullet vs the same load in a plastic hull.....the first being a big game load and the second being a puny shotshell load......Really?
The same applies the the .45-70 (or whatever) loaded with a modern load! They don't thinkl about the bullet diameter and design, weight,velocity, etc.....only the name on the gun's barrel!
Also....as DOK says and it's true.....speculation, not backed by factual eaperience! I once tried to find a hunter that had killed a Griz with a Brenneke slug?....no takers!
If you think you are dealig with Elitist, go over to the Slug Shooting Forum on Shotgun World and say you do not like Sabot Loads over full bore slug/bullets.....and you do not have a mega-bucks custom bolt action slug gun....Ho Ho!
What needs to be done is to look at the load performance...whatever you call it!
In the actual tests at the John Linebaugh Seminar..The Dixie Terminator performed as well in penetation and Bone Box as did the .416....check it out if you doubt my word.
So......we need to look at the overall performance, rather than speculation.
Regards, James