[Bird Dog II]

A gentleman at the range today had a little Ruger 77/44 and he was popping targets at 100 yds. It was a handy little gun. If they would put one of these out in .460 S&W or .454 Casull I would probably get one. Is there any technical reason they could not produce such a package.

 

[Harry Snippe]

Yeah !! A 460 bolt !! that way you could still Casull as the CB lads use 38 Spl. in a 357 .Thompson has a barrel and only seen one .the 460 barrel was then offered in a trade being sold as used at out gunshop. No one ever said anything about how they shot . Would be intersting for a think wood round to my thinking .
There doesn't seem to be too much interst in the 460 at least in these parts . The 500 S&W seems to have more of a following . But!! the price of componets !! OMG..

 

[TMan]

Is there any technical reason they could not produce such a package.

I think the design is at the limit with SAAMI pressure in a .44 Mag. The .454 and .460 both run quite a bit higher.

I do wish it was available in .357 though.

 

[broom_jm]

Is the Model 77/44 built on a different action than the Mk II or Hawkeye? I mean, other than being shorter, isn't it pretty much the same?

 

[Davers]

Is the Model 77/44 built on a different action than the Mk II or Hawkeye? I mean, other than being shorter, isn't it pretty much the same?

The Ruger M-77/44 is built on their Model 77/22 action but with some differences. It has a detachable 4-shot magazine and is larger to handle the larger .44 Magnum cartridge. It does have the same type three position safety though as the MKII & Hawkeye models. I'd kind of like to see them chamber that rifle for the .357/44 Bain & Davis.

 

[Red Pepper]

I believe they would have to use the stronger "standard" 77 action for the higher pressure .454 and .460 rounds, but I agree - that would be a heck of a nice rifle! I've been tempted to pick up one of their Ruger #1's in .460 just for the fun of it.

 

[broom_jm]

I believe they would have to use the stronger "standard" 77 action for the higher pressure .454 and .460 rounds, but I agree - that would be a heck of a nice rifle! I've been tempted to pick up one of their Ruger #1's in .460 just for the fun of it.

Since you're in Indiana, if our regulations get updated, a factory bolt-action in 460S&W would be a pretty potent option for deer hunting, don't ya think?

 

[Red Pepper]

Absolutely! And you could still shoot the .454 if they don't.

 

[Davers]

Since you're in Indiana, if our regulations get updated, a factory bolt-action in 460S&W would be a pretty potent option for deer hunting, don't ya think?

I really hate to say this but according to another Indiana hunting website, the 1.8" length cartridge is a "No-Go". It was voted down during their last meeting. You can still use the 1.6" cartridges though.

 

[broom_jm]

I really hate to say this but according to another Indiana hunting website, the 1.8" length cartridge is a "No-Go". It was voted down during their last meeting. You can still use the 1.6" cartridges though.

Can you post a link to that website? It was my understanding that this would not be voted on until next Spring, although they are still taking RFC on the proposed changes. If they don't make this change, it really won't bother me, particularly if they do NOT omit a week from both the gun and ML seasons.

 

[Davers]

Can you post a link to that website? It was my understanding that this would not be voted on until next Spring, although they are still taking RFC on the proposed changes. If they don't make this change, it really won't bother me, particularly if they do NOT omit a week from both the gun and ML seasons.

Jason, Here's what I've learned & what was posted on another Forum:

Deer Hunting Rule Changes

Next on the agenda was a review of the proposed changes to the deer rules. Though the proposed changes were earlier supported by a task force that represented a wide range of Indiana sportsmen, there has been significant negative public feedback at the public input meetings. This negative feedback dealt with three main areas of the proposed changes: shortening the muzzleloader season, breaking of the 16 day firearm season, and moving the firearm season to a week later.

It is known that the Natural Resources Commission will be making ammendments to the earlier proposals during their mid-November NRC meeting. In preparation for that NRC meeting, the ISR voted at the Oct 4 membership meeting to present a set of our own recommendations to be considered by the NRC to be added to the package. Following is a summary of the discussion and consensus from that Oct.4 ISR meeting:

> Passed was the proposal to recommend a hunters first gun tag becomming an either sex deer tag. This would allow the harvest of an antlerless deer with a firearm tag without the necessity of purchasing an additional antlerless license.

> Passed was a proposal to recommend leaving the muzzleloader season intact at 16 days, as it currently is.

> Did not pass - support the extension of the pistol case cartridge from 1.625 to 1.8 inches in length. It was thought that this opened the door excessively to wildcatting. The 1.625 criteria has also only been in affect for 3 years, so knowledge of its impact is still widely unknown. It was also discussed to add straight wall criteria to this proposal, but that was not advised either.

> The ISR tabled the proposal of supporting the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle (BPCR). This would allow use of the “Quigley” guns 45/70 and such. It was noted that this sport is growing out west. Once more information is available, the ISR will revisit this issue for possible recommendation.

> Negotiated was the ISR stance on support for the opening of a gun season from Christmas to New Year. Guidelines for this dealt with support only if the current proposal of reducing the November firearm season was part of the go forward package (From 16 to 9 days). Without the reduction in the firearm season, there was not seen any reason to support this.



Read more: http://huntingindiana.proboards.com...ion=display&thread=34641&page=1#ixzz12pbsrkV4

 

[broom_jm]

Thanks for all of that good info, Dave! I'm pretty happy with each of those resolutions, passed, not passed, and otherwise. In particular, I like the idea of the first gun tag being either sex and I'm glad to see that the reduction of the regular firearms season is closely linked to a "holiday" gun season. It looks like the worst case scenario might see a 9-day gun season, 16-day ML season and additional 8 or 9 day holiday gun season. That's still plenty of chances to get out there and put venison in the freezer.

The best thing is they didn't add a straight wall criteria to the regs...that would really mess up what a bunch of people have spent quite a bit of money on! It's sad that Indiana still thinks PCR regs, or anything limiting the range of deer hunting rifles, is necessary, but once we get enough really old guys, with really old ideas, out of the decision-making process, I'm sure better legislation will eventually come about.

A Ruger bolt-action, or any bolt-action, in 460S&W, 454 Casull, 445 Super Mag, 357-44 Bain and Davis, etc, would be well-received, if only in the places with PCR regulations. I really think they should leave the regulations as-is, but specifically name the 460S&W as a legal exception. It meets their stated objective of short-to-medium range and would alleviate ambiguity. I guess there were quite a few hunters who used the 460 last year, not realizing their mistake.

(Moderators...if this can be moved to a new thread, I would feel less guilty about hijacking this one!)

 

[kludge]

Dave, those are the minutes from the Indiana Sportmans Roundtable, not the DNR.

 

[Bird Dog II]

Well you can use a .30-378 or .460 Weatherby in my state, but I still think that that little bolt gun, if made for .460 or .454, would be a real nice package. Yes they might need to go with a straight M77 frame rather than the one the 44 version uses, but with an 18" barrel it would still hit very hard and be very handy in brush. The one in .44 Mag that I witnessed had a nice low powered scope on it and was doing a real good job on targets at 100 yds. Still, it seemed a bit weak for a bolt gun. I don't think a .454 version would seem weak though!

Likewise (at the risk of highjacking my own thread) if an American manufacture would produce a nice carbine lever action in .454, I think it would sell. What a companion gun it would be for those folks in the north woods that carry .454 revolvers.

 

[Davers]

Dave, those are the minutes from the Indiana Sportmans Roundtable, not the DNR.

Thanks, kuldge, I stand corrected. However, I would imagine a few of these proposals will stand firm with the NRC & IDNR though.

 

[broom_jm]

Only time will tell which regulations actually get voted in or out. I'm hoping both firearms seasons remain unchanged, the gun tag becomes either sex (which will help keep the herd in balance) and the max length is increased to 1.800". The absurdity of allowing 15" pistol barrels in any cartridge but restricting the range of 16" rifles barrels needs to end. Which is easier to control and ensure safe shooting with; a rifle or a long-barreled pistol?

Now, give me a real bolt-action rifle, not a lever, in a cartridge like the 454 Casull or even 460S&W and it will be something you could kill just about anything with, out to 150-200 yards. Recoil would be substantial, but at least it would carry like a rifle and feel like "real" hunting, to a lot of guys!