[ENGLANDER]

Hello from Scotland~

I was'nt going to post this yet but 7mmanic's post "Perfect rifle" lead me to spill the beans do here goes.............

I have been re-thinking my ideal Deer rifle, at one time i had settled on 7mm-08 as i like short actions, but i was not a reloader at that time and ammo would have been hard to get and expensive !

So i settled on a compromise the venerable .308 and im pretty happy with mine. Although i do feel its "slightly" more than im require.... Now im a reloader other doors are open regarding calibres and ive always been mighty impressed my all 6.5mm rifle.They have a proven record on big game from Elephant to the vast numbers of Elk and moose killed in northern Europe by 6.5 x 55 swede !

Any how ive decided on a 6.5-08 Akley improved loaded with 140 gn bullets there not much it would not be suitable for, mild recoil, excellant accuracy need i go no ??

I want a Rifle around 8lb-8.5lb scoped, stainless barrel 20"-24 ", bolt action of course..............

While i like the A-bolt action Remington seem to be the choice for many custom rifle/wild cat rifles, due to extras, triggers, and i assume ease of modifying ?


I would like to ask on your views regarding this long term project, such as suitable actions ? Advice ? barrels ? rate of twist ? any thing ive not thought of ??

Englander

 

[kdub]

Might want to take a closer look at the .260 Remington - very slightly larger case than the .308 Win, giving a smidgin more powder capacity. No need to go wildcat, factory ammo is available and reloading dies will cost 'way less!

If you insist on wildcatting - make the .260 into Ack. Imp. Don't think there's too many of them around.

 

[WildBill]

Howdy ENGLANDER !
Well to confuse the issue just a little more, you might want to consider another wildcat, the 270-08 AI. I finished putting one together late last year and only had a limited time two work with it, but so far it looks promising. I had a 22" 1-12 barrel fitted to to a Mod. 70 action. The last and most accurate load with 130 grain SSTs clocked 3160 fps. The finished rifle weighs 7 pounds.

Bill

 

[Jimmy]

260 Rem = 6.5-08

I have been thinking about this as well Englander, I own a 280 Remington, great, accurate gun, and plenty of cartridge. But I have developed arthritis in my shoulder, and another medical condition sometimes further reduces recoil tolerance.

That 6.5-55 is so sweet, I had one once, and have always dreamt of it again.

As I think about a gun for my son, a 260 Rem seems to be more and more in my thoughts. Mild recoiling, yet excellent penetration with non-premium bullets. Can it get any better than that for a bolt gun? Magnums just don't excite me...

Jimmy

 

[arkypete]

6.5 ????????

Englander
I've read where the Swedes and others have used the 6.5-55 for most everything, including the odd German or two. Was it the Norwegions or the Danes that used the Swede to great effect on Russians?
I've got a buddy that used to be competitive in the 1,000 yard matches using a 30-338. He's considering building a 280 Remington or 7mm-06 for the same purpose. There would be less recoil and less weight. Or at the same weight rifle the recoil would be less, hince less shooters fatigue and the barrel will be stiffer.
If I can find the time and money, I had thought that a 6.5- 06 would be even better yet, then the 7mm-06. I should think it would take advantage of the 6.5s superior bullets and ballistics, with the easily found 30-06 case. Of course this would require the standard length action as opposed to the shorter, 308 length action. The upside of the 6.5-06 is you can load the ammo to the 6.5 - 55 level and you could load nearly to the .264 Win. mag level.
If you wish to continue in your cast bullet adventures you could make a 375 Whelen and shoot nothing but cast bullets as I do.
Jim

 

[kciH]

The .260 improved would likely be a tremendous cartridge, as is the 7-08 improved. If you've got to have something different, that would be the way to go. The bullet selection for the 7mm is VASTLY superior, premium or otherwise. A friend has a 7mm SGLC (7-08 Imp with Layne's name on it). He ha it in a Rem700 Mountain Rifle. I have a .280 in a Model 70 Winlite(The original one). Both rifles have 22" barrels. The difference in velocity at these barrel lengths is not worth discussing unless the heaviest bullets are being used. I say go with what you want, but the 7mm bullets are second in choice to none other, unless it's .30 cal. It doesn't seem that big of a deal, but it can be. In my .270 Wthby, I can use almost only premium bullets, because most all .277 bullets are designed for the 270 Win. and will blow up at closer range with the Wthby loaded to factory velicities. I know that the Nosler BT will open up out to 200yds with a 6.5 TC\U (6.5x223) out of a pistol. Will it hold up out of a rifle at 50yds? It just seems to be a lot easier when you have a ton of different bullets from a ton of mfgs to choose from, this you will not attain easily with the 6.5. I've got a fondness for 6.5's, but the facts are the facts. My next rifle may be a 6.5x284, but I accept the fact that it will be fed only super premium bullets for hunting use. Speaking of the .284, it is a superb cartridge in a rifle(had one) or a single shot pistol(have one).

 

[7mmaniac]

Hey there Englander...
You read my mind! I asked the question on the other board just out of curiosity. I'm a lefty and short actions are scarce as hens teeth! Even so, Browning is coming out with a left hand shorty in MAR'03 and I'll be having one in .243 pretty quick like! Oh yea, It'll be rebarreled to .260 AI or 257 AI. What's the diff between 260AI and 6.5-308 AI. Nothing right? Anyway, what's the difference between the case head size of the 257 and 260? Will the same bolt face work? I really like the idea of the 260AI, brass will always be available The best I can figure, the .260 AI will all but duplicate the .270 win with less recoil, not a bad thing to be! All in a rifle that weights 7 lbs or a little less, loaded and slung. If you come across some bonafide ballistics let me know will ya?? Oh yea, Match Grade Arms (MGA) already sells rifles for this chambering.

 

[ENGLANDER]

7MManaic~

My reasons for the 6.5-08 AI is if im going to the expense of setting this rifle up i want one that can handel ALL game except big nasty critters ! I would not trust the 120 gn .257 bullets on the largest herbivores.
Im pretty sure i saw 6.5-08 AI dies on Midway or Brownell,hence 6.5-08 rather than .260 AI although like you said it six of one and half a dozen of another !

The real appealing point of this wildcat is due to excellant B.C its bullets do not need to be pushed as fast as other calibres to get a flat trajectory, hence mild recoil and hopefully better groups ! I like the idea of use "enough" to get the job done, and therefore saving on recoil and powder, example 6.5-06 ?? Why ?? The smaller .308 based round will kill ,with less powder, recoil,action weight,and probably group tighter ! it ain't going to be any deader with more velocity simply going to waste powder and spoil meat.

This brings me to the Akley part of this wildcat my reason for this improvement is "NOT" for "POWER" the 6.5mm doesnt need it No its for the bi-products of the enlarged case capacity reduced reward pressure due to new case shape, easier case extraction and longer case life.

Remember BELL was most impressed with the 6.5mm both on Elephants but also as a camp rifle providing meat for his boys.....
The northern Europeans have proved the effectiveness of 6.5 bullets on BIG game Elk, moose, Bear !

If i were going to go .25 cal it would be a .25 souper AI !!!

Englander

 

[7mmaniac]

Englander~~Sounds to me like you got your 'perfect' rifle all figured out, I can't say that I disagree with your choice. There's also a lot of truth in what you say. I'm leaning more toward the .257 AI b/c I already have a sweet little .270 win and a 7mmRM for everything else. What I'm missing is a light-medium rifle for varmint up to deer. The .25 Souper AI is a really good choice but I don't want the hassle of necking down brass and having to start neck reaming then still have to fireform. Too much commotion for me...but I will keep it under advisement By the way, my mother is originally from London, spent most of her life there, have aunts in scotland and Wales.I told her about your slogan, 'we're our own country, not part of europe', she found that amusing.

 

[chris_horn32]

6mm

englander think about a 243imp 1/10twist. no recoil an a flat shooter .i use it for predator controle but have used on deer an one elk. with barnes bulltes its a great round

 

[kciH]

Englander,
I haven't had a chance to see what velocities are possible for the 6.5-08Imp over the standard .260 Remington in 20-22" barrels. Do you have any numbers that indicate the increase in velocity for this round over the standard factory round?

 

[2Bits]

Englander.......I'd be havin a good one fer ye~

The 338/06 is all ye be needin to squash the likes of any stag be trepsin through the woods dear laddy. Now 51 grain of IMR 4320 speeds a 200 grain Nosler bullet through the glen at 2660fps. It does it so well mind ya, it's enough for a man like yourself to want to sing the song "Oh Danny Boy"

 

[loader]

Englander -

You are right on with ANY short action 6.5 with 45 to 55 grs of usable H2O capacity.

The real decision for a custom 6.5 is twist rate and chamber throat dimensions. Because you can shoot bullets from 85 to 160 grs, length will cover a large range, as will optimal twist rates.

The reputation of the 6.5s was built on fast twist rates and heavy bullets with high sectional densities. This is true for long range accuracy as well. The trick is to have a chamber throat that will allow you to touch the lands with the long 160s and still get close to the lands with the lighter bullets.

My recommendation is to design for the 160s, implying a twist rate of 1 in 8 inches, and then load with bullets that are long for their weight as you decrease weight. Nosler BTs and Barnes Xs fit this category. Be sure you can get close to the lands with the 120s as they are very useful and deadly on deer sized game. With high quality modern bullets overstabilization will not be a problem.

Ignore the cannelure on the 160s in you throat design, and seat them deeper if necessary - .20 inches of extra depth will only cost you 2.7 grs of capacity and is not worth worring about.

If you really want to hold pressure and thrust down, look at the 6.5/284, which is now a Norma factory cartridge and is setting records at 1000 yards. Just load it down to 45,000 psi using slow powders to fill the case.

Best accuracy for the $ is the Savage 110 short action designed for the 7-08 and 308. If you go the 6.5/284 route, just get the Savage set up for the 300 WSM and you will have the right magazine for the 284 case. Just buy a whole rifle and a Savage lock nut wrench and you can do the whole barrel swap with a vice yourself, plus have the extra bbl for other applications. Custom triggers are now made for the Savage and they drop right in.

Good shooting!!