[llsierra]

I'm a .308/.30-06 guy, so I won't enter the AR/AK bashing game. However, I have to post my two cents worth about the MAK-90, it's a doggone good gun!!! Norinco went and fixed the problems encountered with their first wave of AK47 sporter clones, the ones that cannot keep a round on the paper (full target paper, not those little scope targets) at 100 yards when they decided to sell the MAK-90 on the US market. The gross improvement in performance makes me wonder if they also extended their fixes to the newer made AK-47s? If they did, that is not good (for our side). Otherwise, that fat pistol grip stock is awful, and the odor of the fresh wood was enough to gag a maggot, but all that can be remedied by a new synthetic stock.

LLS

 

[wby proprieter]

The real "ak" which i have shot many a time(full auto) is not an accurate weapon after the first shot even at 50 yrds

 

[mikej]

The real "ak" which i have shot many a time(full auto) is not an accurate weapon after the first shot even at 50 yrds

Since I don't have a select fire version, I don't have to be concerned with full auto accuracy. With my SEMI auto Yugo underfolder, I am getting 2-3" 5 shot groups off of a sandbag rest at 100 yards with both Remington and WW SP ammo, using the stock iron sights. With S&B steel cased ammo it widens to 4" and with Wolf steel cased ammo this increases to 5-6". I can place 10 shots at 1 second intervals in the head of an IDPA target at 100 yards with any of the above ammo from sitting or kneeling. The weapon itself is not innaccurate; it's more accurate than any of my three Mini 14/30's ever were/are, and has plenty of cheap, readily available 30 round magazines. It's not as accurate as my AR-15's or my M1A, but it's stout and reliable, and as compared to the rest, relatively inexpensive. I have come to like the platform quite a bit, and am in the process of building three more from kits.

 

[Mr. C]

AK 47 type rifles

I picked up my first AK over 35 years ago. Now I own many. Hundreds of thousands of rounds latter, I can say this design works! If our own government would have adopted it and spent the money that was spent on the M16, just think of the weapon's potential. The AK has flaws no doubt. But I still believe that we could have fixed them. A better safety, a bolt hold-open feature, better stocks, maybe a reciever with a flattop pic rail. Just adding a match grade barrel would help. Much of these improvements can be had as aftermarket. There's lots of guns out there that have used the AK design features. We need a weapon right now to replace the M16. I think that design already exists in some variant of the AK.

 

[BigBill]

One up for the Russian Izhmash Saiga in 308 with the 16" barrel. The Russians did say they focused on accuracy with the saiga line up. My 16" barreled 308 saiga will shoot 1 1/2" groups @ 100yds using south african surplus 308 ball ammo benchrested. There are others who own them and there talking about them being accurate from 200yds to 400yds. too. For some reason the russians did find out that the two american made calibers, the 223 and the 308 are a tad more accurate than the russian calibers of 7,62x39 and 5,45x39. The russian engineers think its the design of the brass case is the difference in accuracy.

I have found that my new russian manufactured izhmash saiga to be very reliabile, dependable and very accurate too. The russian quality is hard to beat and the affordable price of my first sagia in 308 was $307 OTD. Even at $350 there still unmatched. They don't jam, they don't stove pipe and they spit out the 308 round like an AK47 spits out the 7,62x39 round. This proves we don't need to spend big dollars to get a great gun.

When i first received my new russian saiga i cleaned and lubed it up with moly. Its a different gun it feels like an expensive gun now, it cycles faster and smoother and the trigger pull with moly on it is awesome too its like getting an expensive trigger job with just a lube.

Russian Izhmash Saiga if you haven't purchased one already you should have!!!!!! Get a 223 saiga and a 308 saiga and you will be glad you did..

 

[uncle jerky]

Big Bill, I'm with you on the Saigas. I got one in .223 w/16" bbl & one in 7.62x39 w/22" bbl.They are accurate & trouble free. I Russian-side mounted & Tasco-scoped both guns with good results.Ammo is cheap & plentiful(so far). Even though I have a BAR 270 for hunting, I'm seriously considering a Saiga 308 to add to my collection...just side-mount a decent scope,get any 308 ammo & you are set up real well. I have left both my Saigas unmodified/factory to avoid the 922/BATF issues.I consider the Saiga line of semis one of the best values now available.

 

[Starpower]

Ak(sar)

I picked up a Romanian SAR-1 for around 3 bills with 8 30 rd magazines. Fully loaded, that's about all I can carry. (Almost 60) I traded out the trigger group for a Red Star adjustable (1 or two stage) and immediately went back to Centerfire Systems for the solid shepherds hook replacement piece, and gladly paid the additional shipping. I suggested they should offer this solid replacement piece with the trigger group as the original shepherds hook would not properly go in no matter how I held my mouth. (Believe me, in these type situations, holding my mouth is not one of my strong points!)
I also tricked it out with a side rail scope mount (Stay away from the dust cover mounts, they won't hold still) a 4 pwr scope and plastic furniture which I then traded for a M-4 adaptor and a fixed M-4 stock. The adaptor also works fine for the 4 or six position adjustable stocks. I bought rubber bumper pads for the bolt to clang up against at the stock end of the bolt return spring. I have also tried American made 50 round banana mags, which don't feed too well, but they do look fierce hangin' on the wall.
One other note: I didn't take the bolt completely apart to clean the cosmoline out of it when I first purchased the rifle, and the carbon build-up inside the bolt, gathering on the hot cosmoline, produced a series of double taps, making me fear a runaway. I downloaded bolt dissambly instruction from the internet and after cleaning it all up it has performed flawlessly for about six years.
I usually only shoot Wolf 7.62x39 FMJ but I have found that even this cost is rising. Maybe they should send some of that confiscated ammo from Iraq instead of blowing it in place.

 

[uncle jerky]

I can now report that my Saiga 308 short bbl with scope is as reliable,quality and accurate as my Saiga 223 & 7.62x39. The recoil is surprisingly mild on the 308. However, bulk/surplus 308 ammo is getting a tad hard to find.

 

[jpattersonnh]

I can now report that my Saiga 308 short bbl with scope is as reliable,quality and accurate as my Saiga 223 & 7.62x39. The recoil is surprisingly mild on the 308. However, bulk/surplus 308 ammo is getting a tad hard to find.

Hey Uncle, I have a bunch of 7.62x51. Maybe we can work a deal. ( Portuguese)
I just bought a WASR. http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Romanian_WASR-2_5.45x39_AK_Rifle.html
Price was right, and ammo is cheap at 14 cents a round.

 

[m141a]

If he does'nt want it, perhaps we could make a deal.
I'll burn that Porti ammo up in my .308 garand!!!!!

PM me.

Chris~

 

[jpattersonnh]

M1, PM sent!

 

[jpattersonnh]

I do not mean to belittle my own, but Americans do not undestand the AK. It's genesis is based off studies from WW2, in which the Russkies discoverd the same thing tha the Germans discovered that took the US until Korea to figure out:
Most combat ocurrs at less than 300m, and most often a soldier will wait until the enemey is at 100m, due to fear of being able to hit the enemy, lightling, terrain, etc. Also, we in the US ae a nation of Riflemen. The russkies are not, and never were. What does this mean? Simple. The Army and Marines teach that "this soldier shoots here" The Russians thought process is "The SQUAD shoots here" Lastly, at the time of the USSR and the AK's development, the USSR had about three major and 3 minor laguages to contend with, coupled with a very large populace portion that were basically illiterate, so the gun had to be oh-so simple. Lastly, of course, is the legendary reliability. Not too long ago, I saw where the Sout African Army was finding piles - literally - of AKs rusting in the inclement weather in Mozambique, where they were being allowed to look for these hidden caches that criminals were bringing into SA. Pull the magest dirtest rustiest one off the pile, pour motor oil over it, make sure the bore is unobstructed, then load and shoot!

Point is, don't compare it to the M16. To do so is a mistake.

I have owned many, and currently own a "franken gun" and they are great. you will be well-served by this weapon

Oh Yes We Americans can shoot! But, The understanding of the AK is perfectly clear! Cheap, ease of use, close to indistrucable, and very reliable. ??? So what are we missing? Jim

 

[BigBill]

With the Russian Izhmash Saiga your buying a brand new Russian manufactured AK47 in a sporter wrapper. It doesn't get any better than this. There are 20rd mags available for the 308 saiga now too. If i purchased the 308 saiga before i purchased the other military rifles in 308 I would of never purchased them. For years I been looking for the perfect 308 rifle and the saiga is it. After shooting the 16" barrel i went back to get another and the 308's were all gone from my dealers racks he just put out the saiga in 223 and i was never fond of the 223 round(over priced rifles) but in a saiga for $259 I figured i better grab one. Its a hoot to shoot too with wolf ammo. I never had a jam or stovepipe yet i guess its unheard of with the russian ak's.

No wonder why i see on the news our soldiers in iraq carrying both the m16 and an ak47. They don't jam!!! Take the rustest, locked up, rusted shut ak47 and kick the bolt open and fire it, it will function no problem, the gun isn't finiky.

The Russian Izhmash Saiga is the hottest thing to hit our shores since the very first chinese norinco sks did in the late 70's/early 80's. Your getting a brand new russian ak47 for around $300.

Becareful of the century built stuff just look at the fit of the wood stocks so look them over and pick a good one if a good one is there. All the ones my dealer had looked really bad it was the last of the batch he had.(picked over already)

 

[ironhead7544]

+1. Im with BigBill. I have a 12 ga, 308 and 7.62x39 Saiga. Best bang for the buck. Can be converted to the pistol grip but you have to add several US made parts for 922r.

 

[jpattersonnh]

Forget the Saiga!! http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Romanian_WASR-2_5.45x39_AK_Rifle.html

AK-74 !!! Got 1 with 2 cans of ammo. $518.00. Should be a good plinker. If I what to be on target at 300 yards, my AR will do fine.

 

[jpattersonnh]

Ammo is .12 cents a round.

 

[Cozy]

Forget the Saiga!! http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Romanian_WASR-2_5.45x39_AK_Rifle.html

AK-74 !!! Got 1 with 2 cans of ammo. $518.00. Should be a good plinker. If I what to be on target at 300 yards, my AR will do fine.

Say, how is the accuracy of this AK-74 at 100 & 200 yards?

I am seriously looking for a rifle like this and was leanilng towards those .308 calibers.

 

[jpattersonnh]

Say, how is the accuracy of this AK-74 at 100 & 200 yards?

I am seriously looking for a rifle like this and was leanilng towards those .308 calibers.

Minute of pie plate! Jump on one, Aim is running low! 5.45x39 Ammo is much cheaper than 7.62x39.

 

[BigBill]

Saiga in 308 thats the one.....or a saiga in 223...

I was paying just $99/1,000rds of 223 wolf. After one of the last shortages of the 7,62x39 ammo it was $59/1,000rds thats the time to buy it and stockup on it. I always wait for sales and clearances. A few years ago there was 30-06 barnaul for just $1.99/20rds. It doesn't get much better than that.

I can't own an ak47 in my state...when i get my new house built in vt and move i will buy every ak47 made. If the libs don't get us first...

 

[firebird]

At at a gun show my brother in law offered two SKS for sale. One had a blond wood stock and one had a black synthetic stock. A RCMP officer at the gun show told him he could not sell the black SKS because it was an assault rifle. He could sell the Blond wood SKS. He took the Black SKS home and spray painted the gun stock light brown and then he was told it was OK to sell at the gun show. Canadian gun laws at work!!!
I have used one SKS that shot 1" groups from the bench at 100 yrds. I sighted it in for a young couple at the range that really didn't know much about sighting in a scoped rifle. I can't vouch for other SKS.