i am looking for a 45-70 rifle i want the blackhawk of 45-70s a very strong action that will take the hottest handloads but i also want to keep the price under controll if possible i have a few in mind but wanted to get other opnions first any suggestions? thanks for your time or your reply
in the market for a 45-70 wich one
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I love my H&R .45-70 BC. I am getting sub moa groups at 100 yards with the included iron sights and have plans to either install a tang or barrel ladder style sight system to do some long range silhouette. It's slightly weaker in action than a #1. If you want to check out more posts on it, you might check out Greybeard's. 8)
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Ruger #1. I don't think second place will even be close, as far as strength is concerned.
However.... if you aren't quite ready to detach retinas, the Marlins will still kick a LOT and probably do all the damage you need, at the shooting end. Not to mention at the receiving end, too.
However.... if you aren't quite ready to detach retinas, the Marlins will still kick a LOT and probably do all the damage you need, at the shooting end. Not to mention at the receiving end, too.
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The No. 1's 3/4" thick steel block is strong enough to hold just about anything. Many reloading manuals have a seperate section just for the No. 1, and the loads listed there are not shoulder friendly.
I too will agree that the Ruger #1 is the strongest! However it is a single shot and if that is not something you wish to contend with in a hunting rifle, I would take a hard look at the Marlin 1895 model in 45-70, this is a true lever gun, holding several rounds of ammo. They have various models in this caliber, they can also be converted to a 45/90 also. Just food for thought in case your wondering.
I have the H&R Handi-Rifle in .444 and I really like it. Very good accuracy, and you can't beat the price. If price was not a consideration, I would go with the No. 1 just because it looks nicer. I don't think it will be any more accurate.
Another advantage of the H&R is that it is legal in the primitive weapons seasons of several states.
Another advantage of the H&R is that it is legal in the primitive weapons seasons of several states.
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I would have to think it is close. Many folks shoot the .500 S&W, .460 and many other beefy loads. I don't think it's as strong, but many don't even need all the power you can develop in a handy. Just an option anyway, $259 shipped from some places on the handi or $1000+.
I'd love a No.1 but my budget doesn't permit. I purchased 8 firearms for the cost of one. lol
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Ruger had a model 3 which was a more utilitarian version of the model 1. It was about 5.5 lbs with a 26" barrel and chambered in only a few calibers, one of which was the 45-70. With a 300 gr bullet, you could make a load much hotter than safe for the 1895 and even approach muzzle energies of some 458 WM loads. The problem was that the recoil was severe and off the bench, you had to hold your left hand over the barrel to keep from losing it. Loads for the 1895 were much more tolerable and on 150 lb hogs they would stop in their tracks and just fall over sideways. It's a great rifle if you can find one.
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There are alot of Ruger #1 45-70s out there so, if you are patient, you can probably snag a deal. Magna Port the barrel adds $165, just checked as I almost bought a 458. Acc. to Magna Port, this should reduce felt recoil by 30% in a caliber with big bullets. Use the recoil calculator on Beartooth. Figure a 9.5# Ruger #1 sans scope and mounts. If you use a "Ruger #1 only" type load you can get 1850 fps with a 405 grain bullet. This is a max load number.
This particular max load generates 29 ft/lbs of recoil @ 14 fps. By comparison, a 30/06 with a 180 grain is about 18#s @ 11 fps. So, Magna Port gets it down to almost this level. But, there is no reason why you couldn't use 9 grains of Bullseye (955 fps) or 12 grains of Unique (965 fps) same bullet weight of 405 grains, and shoot cast bullets all day fairly cheaply and keep your fillings intact.
You might also consider a Ruger #3. You could replace the stock to one with a better design. Keep your old one in case you ever want to sell the gun.
One for sale right now with 3x9 scope for $500...no bids.
Some guys prefer the #3 and they seem rather collectible.
If you are just looking for a 45 cal, perhaps a Ruger #1 458 Win Mag. One sold about a week ago, nice shape, for $523. That was a deal.
Like Matt mentioned. most are in the $750-$1000 range asking price but I see few sold at that level. Be patient.
I love wasting time looking at auction sites.....
This particular max load generates 29 ft/lbs of recoil @ 14 fps. By comparison, a 30/06 with a 180 grain is about 18#s @ 11 fps. So, Magna Port gets it down to almost this level. But, there is no reason why you couldn't use 9 grains of Bullseye (955 fps) or 12 grains of Unique (965 fps) same bullet weight of 405 grains, and shoot cast bullets all day fairly cheaply and keep your fillings intact.
You might also consider a Ruger #3. You could replace the stock to one with a better design. Keep your old one in case you ever want to sell the gun.
One for sale right now with 3x9 scope for $500...no bids.
Some guys prefer the #3 and they seem rather collectible.
If you are just looking for a 45 cal, perhaps a Ruger #1 458 Win Mag. One sold about a week ago, nice shape, for $523. That was a deal.
Like Matt mentioned. most are in the $750-$1000 range asking price but I see few sold at that level. Be patient.
I love wasting time looking at auction sites.....
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One thing about Mag-Na-Porting. Do not believe the story that it will reduce recoil by 30%. It will not. I have a .458 Win mag and a Marlin 1895SS, both Mag-Na-Ported, and it does not reduce straight back recoil a bit. What it does do is almost eliminate muzzle jump, and if that muzzle jump is busting your chops, you MIGHT conclude that it reduces recoil albeit falsely. The straight back recoil of these two rifles was not diminished one bit that my shoulder could tell, but my cheek, especially on the 1895SS, could tell a world of difference. For the elimination of muzzle jump MNPing is worth every penny, but if your shoulder hurts and is getting bruised by straight back recoil, do not expect MNPing to do anything to eliminate that.
To the OP, I have quite a few 45-70s from single shots to handguns and a couple of stops in between.
If you want the without a question the strongest, Ruger No. 1 hands down. If you want one that is strong enough for all but the most insane loads (and in the 7.25 pound No. 1, heavy loads take you out for a heavy beating) and more than strong enough for anything walking North America, the 1895 is the one to get, in any form you want.
By the way, the No. 1 is 7.25 pounds, not 9 plus. My load is a 450 gr. bullet at 1825 fps with a 53.5 gr. load of H335. This combination in the No. 1 generates just a bit more recoil than listed above. 43 ft-lbs and 20 fps recoil velocity. That will get your attention. If you get the No. 1 and want to go heavy loads, the first thing you do is come home, remove the factory recoil plate (calling it a pad is a joke) and replace it with a Decelerator. Your shoulder will thank you.
To the OP, I have quite a few 45-70s from single shots to handguns and a couple of stops in between.
If you want the without a question the strongest, Ruger No. 1 hands down. If you want one that is strong enough for all but the most insane loads (and in the 7.25 pound No. 1, heavy loads take you out for a heavy beating) and more than strong enough for anything walking North America, the 1895 is the one to get, in any form you want.
By the way, the No. 1 is 7.25 pounds, not 9 plus. My load is a 450 gr. bullet at 1825 fps with a 53.5 gr. load of H335. This combination in the No. 1 generates just a bit more recoil than listed above. 43 ft-lbs and 20 fps recoil velocity. That will get your attention. If you get the No. 1 and want to go heavy loads, the first thing you do is come home, remove the factory recoil plate (calling it a pad is a joke) and replace it with a Decelerator. Your shoulder will thank you.
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I just got my first 45-70 this year, and got the standard 1895G. It is a really accurate rifle and there are so many loads available for that rifle it is insane. I cannot believe how accurate the rifle is. It is seriously as accurate as most of my bolt guns. I am not having any issues with most full stroke loads going under an inch at 100 yards. Plus, with some good hardcast bullets at 18-1900FPS you are talking some serious HP for killing big game. They aren't short range handicapped too awfully much either. 200 yards isn't really too hard to master.
I will second what the others have said about putting a good recoil pad on whatever one you get though. Mine came with a "ventilated recoil pad".. It is nothing more than hard rubber that does nothing!. I have since bought a Limbsaver to replace it. Again, it isn't punishing to me, but I love to shoot it. Alot of power and would probably work well for 90% of the shots more hunters take every year. Scotty
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I will second what the others have said about putting a good recoil pad on whatever one you get though. Mine came with a "ventilated recoil pad".. It is nothing more than hard rubber that does nothing!. I have since bought a Limbsaver to replace it. Again, it isn't punishing to me, but I love to shoot it. Alot of power and would probably work well for 90% of the shots more hunters take every year. Scotty
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Since you mentioned handloading, there's pretty much no difference to my mind whether you purchase a 45-70 or .450 Marlin. IF you think about a .450 along with the 45-70 you can also move then to a stronger action than the Marlin provides, the BLR in .450. Seeing as how the Browning BLR is also chambered in S/A form in .300WSM and also perhaps the most potent factory chambering in any lever rifle, the .325WSM, I think you'd find this 65,000 PSI capable action up to the task for the highest pressure reloads, along with the #1 in 45-70 (which I also own).
Just a thought!
Just a thought!
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My 45-70's --->
I own two 45-70's. One is a older Marlin 1895 that has been chopped to 16 inches. It wears a Leupold 2-7X33 shotgun/ML scope and will handle all the power that my shoulder will allow.
The other is actually my wife's hog "Thumper". It is a NEF Handi-Rifle with a black Rynite stock that has had the LOP shortened to 12.5" and the bbl has been chopped to 18 inches. I load a 350gr Hornady to 1100fps and it will put 3 of these into less than a inch at 50yds. This weapon is strong enough to take about all the power you will want to have up against your shoulder. This same action will handle the 500S&W mag and the 460S&W. Both are rated at well above 60K psi. So strong ?? Yeah,I'd say so. ---SAWMAN
I own two 45-70's. One is a older Marlin 1895 that has been chopped to 16 inches. It wears a Leupold 2-7X33 shotgun/ML scope and will handle all the power that my shoulder will allow.
The other is actually my wife's hog "Thumper". It is a NEF Handi-Rifle with a black Rynite stock that has had the LOP shortened to 12.5" and the bbl has been chopped to 18 inches. I load a 350gr Hornady to 1100fps and it will put 3 of these into less than a inch at 50yds. This weapon is strong enough to take about all the power you will want to have up against your shoulder. This same action will handle the 500S&W mag and the 460S&W. Both are rated at well above 60K psi. So strong ?? Yeah,I'd say so. ---SAWMAN
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First off !!
Are you primary going to hunt with this gun- say in heavy bush, or just use it at the range ?
Used the 18.5 Inch in the bush with good results , but I rather use the 22" gun I started with . Never did well with targets close to 200 yards with the rifle shooting 3" high @ 100. Within the 25-70 yards that deer was almost dressed as well as dead .
Then for range work , there is nothing better than a long barreled single shot,with peeps, that weighs over twelve ponds to contantly put them in there .
Are you primary going to hunt with this gun- say in heavy bush, or just use it at the range ?
Used the 18.5 Inch in the bush with good results , but I rather use the 22" gun I started with . Never did well with targets close to 200 yards with the rifle shooting 3" high @ 100. Within the 25-70 yards that deer was almost dressed as well as dead .
Then for range work , there is nothing better than a long barreled single shot,with peeps, that weighs over twelve ponds to contantly put them in there .
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There are two other strong actions. First is nearly 125 yrs old is the Winchester/Browning 1886. Just don't get one with a cresent/steel butt plate. The 86 might be just a tad stronger then the Marlin. The other is only 112 yrs old and that is the Siamese Type 66. This is the Mauser 98 built for some obsure rimmed cartridge for Siam (now Thialand). Germany built a few of these rifles then the others were made in preWWII Japan, which were excellent quality. Converted over it will take a stout load equal to the Ruger #1/Browning 1885.
CD
CD
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I tend to hold tightly when shooting my BLR/.450 with both the 325gr @ 2225 FPS and the 350gr @ 2100 FPS. It does, however come with a real, honest to goodness recoil pad, unlike my Marlin 1895....lol.
Much higher recoil than the 250s I've shot in my .358 and in my .35 Whelen, at least to my shoulder.1 - 20 of 25 Posts
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