Shooters Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
162 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Anyone have experience cleaning brass with Master Stages Clean2020? I normally use Citranox by Alconox Inc. which does a very good job and is very safe to handle but it is $65/gal vs $35/gal for Clean2020 although it has some handling precautions.
 

·
The Shadow (Super Mod)
Joined
·
7,310 Posts
Not with that specific system, but as with any "wet" cleaning method there are some real health concerns.

Liquid cleaner (surfactant, acidic, soapy) solutions make the metal oxides far more absorbable and spreadable. Don't be sifting through it with bare hands, and dumping it on the baby bottles in the sink.
Unless you are going for the "mad as a hatter" look.o_O
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
Citranox reacted with my brass leaving a faint blue residue in bottom of ultrasonic cleaner, it also removed blue from a few gun parts i put in without thinking. I use Alconox powder with very good results.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,185 Posts
If you are cleaning brass and want to save money, just mix your own version of Hornady's ultrasonic cleaning solution for brass cases. I made up a gallon and it works just fine. It is citric acid powder (about $25 on Amazon (if you have Prime to cover the shipping) or $28 postpaid at Duda Diesel if you don't have Prime) for 10 lb, which is enough to make about 3.5 gallons of concentrate or 143.5 gallons of working strength solution) and Diethanalomine for $28 (500 ml, or 548.5 grams or 19.348 ounces which is enough to go with 77 lbs of citric acid or a little over 27 gallons of concentrate or about 1,100 gallons of working strength solution).

For concentrate, in a gallon jug with a cap mix:


74 ounces hot water (by weight, not fluid ounces)
32 ounces of Citric Acid
0.5 ounces Diaethanolomine

Put the citric acid powder and the water into the jug, close the cap and shake to dissolve the citric acid. Using hot water speeds this up as the dissolving citric acid cools the mix some.

Add the diethanolamine and shake until mixed.

This will make about 0.7 gallons of concentrate. To use the concentrate, dilute with 40 parts water by volume. Clean the cases in the U.S., rinse them, then toss them in a little distilled water (doesn't take much) to remove mineral traces that might make water spots.
 

·
Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
Joined
·
10,568 Posts
You guys do it now you want, but I'm really liking my Lyamn corncob media tumbler about now. No muss, no fuss, no waiting for brass to dry or wondering if it is actually dry or am I loading cases that are still wet.

Can you shoot the difference between wet sonic ss pin cleaned brass and dry media tumbled brass? Just asking because I want to know as I've never shot any but dry tumbled in corncob media brass.

YMMV

TEHO

Not judging, just pointing out what I see.

Woop, gotta go get that .223 brass out of the tumbler and get to loading. 😉

RJ
 

·
The Shadow (Super Mod)
Joined
·
7,310 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
328 Posts
I can't tell you if the dust from cleaning with walnut or corn cob is any better or worse than the cleaning in a liquid but I don't spend a lot of time in dust from my walnut media. A used dryer sheet keeps the dust down. When you have to handle the liquids you are more in contact with the dirt and lead salts. They can enter your body through your skin.
My lungs are clear as of the last physical and I have been shooting and reloading for going on 60 years. Only my son and my wife think I am retarded. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
162 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Earlier today I cleaned about 500, Hornet cases and 100, 22-250 cases using about two ounces of Citronox in a 2 liter Hornady ultrasonic cleaner. I could have cleaned twice as much. It came out looking like new brass.

WP_20200731_20_21_46_Pro.jpg WP_20200731_20_22_11_Pro.jpg

I've had a gallon for years and cleaned thousands of cases but now its about gone, but so far I haven't seen or read anything that's better or as convenient.

Looks like $65/gal is really a bargain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,203 Posts
You guys do it now you want, but I'm really liking my Lyamn corncob media tumbler about now. No muss, no fuss, no waiting for brass to dry or wondering if it is actually dry or am I loading cases that are still wet.

Can you shoot the difference between wet sonic ss pin cleaned brass and dry media tumbled brass? Just asking because I want to know as I've never shot any but dry tumbled in corncob media brass.

YMMV

TEHO

Not judging, just pointing out what I see.

Woop, gotta go get that .223 brass out of the tumbler and get to loading. 😉

RJ
RJ, pistol primarily corn cob in a Dillon vibrating thingies. I do wet tumble them if they get really skunky, like sitting in the weeds for winter.

Rifle is always wet tumble. I don't worry about them being wet because I plan in advance. If it's summer, I just let them sit in the sun.

Works nicely and with precission rifle loading, I want the inside of the cases clean. Read Hump's post on carbon wars. The old bulletsmiths at Sierra will tell you the biggest problem they had with rifles wasn't copper fouling. It was carbon.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,185 Posts
Darkker said:
Liquid cleaner (surfactant, acidic, soapy) solutions make the metal oxides far more absorbable and spreadable. Don't be sifting through it with bare hands, and dumping it on the baby bottles in the sink.
The citric acid I mentioned is an exception, as it is a fairly strong chelating agent. It actually makes lead less toxic.

From the end of page 001 of this study: "When metal ions are bonded to chelant, the metal becomes blocked from undesired interaction… "
Page 004 of the same study, under Citrates starting near the bottom of the left column goes on to mention more specifically the use of citric acid to remove lead from soil.
 

·
The Shadow (Super Mod)
Joined
·
7,310 Posts
Yes it does, but dose and time are important.
I question whether a guy cleaning his brass, use the required molar strength and pH, then let things soak for 24hrs?
Or will he mix "some" and get it done as quick as he can. Then not wear gloves, as he handles and pours it down the sink with maybe a quick rinse of the sink.
Maybe it's not the same animal, but I think of work.
We use some EDDHA products to help with nutrient tie-ups in the soil. But when you get to some tough pieces of dirt(where it's needed the most), the soil pH can make it a very short lived and expensive proposition.

That's my notion behind a caution to folks using the wet cleaning system. What can happen and what does happen, aren't always the same thing.

Cheers
 

·
Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
Joined
·
10,568 Posts
Another of my concerns was/is disposal. I'm sure that my corn cob media is just as "filthy" but it gets put in a "coffee plastic" then a garbage bag and hauled (eventually) to the local landfill. I'm not sure what the "water" from wet tumbling would do to the little microbes in my septic tank or what would happen if I dumped it in my ash pit.

Anyways

Just thinking out loud

RJ
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,203 Posts
Another of my concerns was/is disposal. I'm sure that my corn cob media is just as "filthy" but it gets put in a "coffee plastic" then a garbage bag and hauled (eventually) to the local landfill. I'm not sure what the "water" from wet tumbling would do to the little microbes in my septic tank or what would happen if I dumped it in my ash pit.

Anyways

Just thinking out loud

RJ
Never empty wet tumbling into a septic tank. They're not meant to deal with carbon.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,185 Posts
Darkker,

I understand actually leaching lead from soil with citric acid/sodium citrate solutions is not simple or quick. But a small (relatively) amount of lead in the presence of overwhelming numbers of citrate ions ought to be a recipe for a fast reaction, especially in an ultrasonic with a heater. Indeed, when you mix citric acid with hard water, it turns slippery as fast as you can stir it in because the minerals in the water are chelated that fast. Lead is less reactive by a good bit than calcium, but in a sea of citrate ions and with ultrasonic waves powdering the combustion product solids into "smoke" in the solution, speed is also enhanced.

As it happens, I was on the horn with Hornady (I need to set that phrase to a tune) about something unrelated today but thought to ask if the chemists that put that formulation together for them said it was safe to handle and dispose of the used solution in drains, and he assured me it was. He may not know the chemistry, personally, but I expect their lawyers would not let them claim that if it were untrue. It's beyond my old chemistry student days to know a way to quantify chelated vs non-chelated lead a solution without magnetic resonance equipment, so unless you do, we'd need a chemist to explore the topic any further.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Darkker

·
Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
Joined
·
10,568 Posts
Never put anything in the pot
that isn't garaunteed to rot.

There's a poem about septic tanks with that line in it.

RJ
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,185 Posts
Organics in a nutshell.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top