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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I inherited my Uncles 50 cal black powder rifle a few years ago. I shot it earlier this year and was able to get 3 shots inside an inch at 75 yards. I thought that was pretty good, But the fourth shot was way off and the subsequent shots were all over the place. Im pretty sure that was from barrel fouling, since after I cleaned it and went back to the range I was pretty on point. But I tried making 100 yard shots and it was all over the place with the same powder and slugs.

Should I up the powder or what? It isnt like shooting a rifle, Im having trouble figuring out how to get it consistent over a wider range.
 

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I'd go back to the original load and clean it until it does it again. THEN experiment with another load once you know the rifle is 'right'.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'd go back to the original load and clean it until it does it again. THEN experiment with another load once you know the rifle is 'right'.
I Did that. 3-50 grain pellets, sabot slugs (forgot the weight but I have only used those) and Remington kleanbore 209 primers. I can nail shots at 75 yards consistently, but when i try 100 yards I seem to be all over the place. This is my first experience with a black powder rifle so i would like some pointers or to see if anyone else has had this experience. it may be that the gun just doesnt have the tolerances for that distance.
 

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Quit using pellets and cut back on the amount of powder. For this gun use loose powder and start at about 80 grains measured by volume, not weight. Ditch the Rem 209 primers and get any other primer that isn't a black powder type primer. Since you're using a 209 primer I'm assuming it's an in-lne and not a side-lock? Is that correct? If so, are you using a patched round ball, a sabot and bullet, or what? The term "slugs" is very vague. Please detail the exact components you are using and the type of gun it is....in-line or side lock. There are many, many things you can be doing that are causing poor accuracy. Even your loading technique can be causing a lot of problems. For best accuracy you need to swab and clean between shots. Most ml rifles don't shoot as well with 150g of powder, and pellets are terrible for getting consistent accuracy. They tend to crack when pushed on and then they burn inconsistently. Provide more details and I'd be happy to offer some suggestions to get you on track. I've been shooting these things for over forty-five years.
 

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it may be that the gun just doesn't have the tolerances for that distance.
That can not possibly be the case. If you are getting tight groups as 75 yards and poor groups beyond that distance it has to be something other than the gun - either shooter error at longer distances or the bullet becoming unstable once it passes the 75 yard mark.

Are you using a scope or iron sights?
 

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I'm with nsb. Go to loose powder and cut back the charge. Seat the bullet firmly with the same pressure every time and do a light swab between shots. Consistency is key, just takes practice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quit using pellets and cut back on the amount of powder. For this gun use loose powder and start at about 80 grains measured by volume, not weight. Ditch the Rem 209 primers and get any other primer that isn't a black powder type primer. Since you're using a 209 primer I'm assuming it's an in-lne and not a side-lock? Is that correct? If so, are you using a patched round ball, a sabot and bullet, or what? The term "slugs" is very vague. Please detail the exact components you are using and the type of gun it is....in-line or side lock. There are many, many things you can be doing that are causing poor accuracy. Even your loading technique can be causing a lot of problems. For best accuracy you need to swab and clean between shots. Most ml rifles don't shoot as well with 150g of powder, and pellets are terrible for getting consistent accuracy. They tend to crack when pushed on and then they burn inconsistently. Provide more details and I'd be happy to offer some suggestions to get you on track. I've been shooting these things for over forty-five years.
Im using sabots which say not to use any wadding. And it is an inline BPR.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
That can not possibly be the case. If you are getting tight groups as 75 yards and poor groups beyond that distance it has to be something other than the gun - either shooter error at longer distances or the bullet becoming unstable once it passes the 75 yard mark.

Are you using a scope or iron sights?
scope. i can make the shot fine with any other rifle. So I think it has to do with my loading technique.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'm with nsb. Go to loose powder and cut back the charge. Seat the bullet firmly with the same pressure every time and do a light swab between shots. Consistency is key, just takes practice.
I was told that the pellets offered better consistency and Im trying to find the box with the sabots so i can tell you guys what Im using.
 

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Having owned a dozen or so in-lines over the last twenty-five or thirty years, and having put some effort in developing accurate loads for those guns, I can assure you that pellets aren't better than loose powder. The trick with any in-line is to find a combination of sabot, bullet, and powder that your gun likes. I've owned several TC in-lines (just got a new one about a month ago, an Encore Pro Hunter) and they all shot pretty well with some basic loads. Every new one I got shot one load well each time. It wasn't the best load in all of them, but it shot well in all of them. It was a Hornady XTP .452 HP bullet (a handgun bullet), 80-90 grains of Blackhorn209, and an MMP HPH24 sabot. Always use a standard 209 shotgun primer. The TC barrels are always on the tight side and can be difficult to load sometimes. If you're having a problem getting the thing loaded try using an MMP 3 petal sabot....it's a bit thinner. They all shot well with Triple7 powder also, but I hate the crud ring you get using that stuff. You need to run one wet patch down the bore between shots followed by two dry patches and make sure the barrel is clean between shots. Also, YOU HAVE TO LET THE BARREL COOL DOWN TO AMBIENT AIR TEMP BETWEEN SHOTS!!!!! Heat is the deadly enemy to all sabots and accuracy. Try seating the bullet with the same amount of pressure each time you load the gun. Measure your loads by VOLUME, not ACTUAL WEIGHT. Get a graduated powder measure that reads in grains and use it to measure powder charges. FYI, they aren't even close to actual scale weight, but that's how it's always been done. Don't ask me why, that's just the way it's always been. Try all of this and let us know how you made out. If you have any specific questions you can post them here or PM me if you'd like more info. Good luck.
 

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Guys, you're not seeing the picture here. The rifle, the loading techniques, the powder and the shooter get the bullet to hit in a tight group at 75 yards. There is nothing wrong with any of those factors. Motorbreath says he is getting sub one-inch groups at 75 yards.

So something is happening after the bullet passes the 75 yard mark. A very stable bullet that yields 3/4" groups at 75 yards should produce 1" groups at 100 yards, 1-1/4"inch groups at 125 yards, and 1-1/2" groups at 150 yards.

A less stable bullet will not do quite that well, and of course other factors such as wind will open groups up. But a bullet that yields sub one-inch groups at 75 yards cannot be "all over the place" at 100 unless the bullet becomes very unstable once it passes the 75 yard mark. Many of us have experienced that very same thing with Lee REAL bullets. But it would be unusual in the typical sabotted bullet.

There's something important we have all failed to ask Motorbreath. Exactly what does he mean by "all over the place"? Is that three inch groups? Five inch groups? Off the target?
 

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Guys, you're not seeing the picture here. The rifle, the loading techniques, the powder and the shooter get the bullet to hit in a tight group at 75 yards. There is nothing wrong with any of those factors. Motorbreath says he is getting sub one-inch groups at 75 yards.

So something is happening after the bullet passes the 75 yard mark. A very stable bullet that yields 3/4" groups at 75 yards should produce 1" groups at 100 yards, 1-1/4"inch groups at 125 yards, and 1-1/2" groups at 150 yards.

A less stable bullet will not do quite that well, and of course other factors such as wind will open groups up. But a bullet that yields sub one-inch groups at 75 yards cannot be "all over the place" at 100 unless the bullet becomes very unstable once it passes the 75 yard mark. Many of us have experienced that very same thing with Lee REAL bullets. But it would be unusual in the typical sabotted bullet.

There's something important we have all failed to ask Motorbreath. Exactly what does he mean by "all over the place"? Is that three inch groups? Five inch groups? Off the target?
That's a good question to ask, but I have to ad something about "theoretical" groups at 100yds based on groups at 75yds. I've had experiences with big bore bullets out of my numerous 45-70s and ML rifles that shot fairly good at 75yds and then went really bad at 100yds. They simply weren't stable at 75yds and due to tumbling they went extremely wild beyond that distance. He may be getting that with his gun. He obviously doesn't know a lot about shooting ML rifles and getting the best accuracy possible. It will be interesting to hear the group sizes at 100yds from him. I don't think he's talking about two or three inch groups though from the way he's talking. I expect he's talking about missing the target completely. I've seen that with guns that shot "OK" at 75yds and then took a dump past that. Let's see what he says.
 

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If this is an inline rifle, and your shooting a 209 primer ignition, nothing wrong with pellets if that is what you want to use. Some of my best groups were shot with pellets. But I am a loose power shooter as I can reproduce the same results with loose powder.

As for the sudden change in accuracy between 75 yards and 100 yards, I can tell you, some bullets just are not good long range bullets. REAL conical are one of them. Excellent accuracy out to 75 yards, but after that, at least when I am shooting they go stray.

So what I would suggest is, take your time shooting. Don't let the barrel overheat. Swab the barrel between each and every shot. A damp patch down the bore, working in short strokes, back up, flip over and do the other side, then a couple dry patches to insure that the bore is dry. Now load as always. If this does not solve the problem, try a different bullet. With a T/C inline I would try some shock waves, 250 grain would be good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Guys, you're not seeing the picture here. The rifle, the loading techniques, the powder and the shooter get the bullet to hit in a tight group at 75 yards. There is nothing wrong with any of those factors. Motorbreath says he is getting sub one-inch groups at 75 yards.

So something is happening after the bullet passes the 75 yard mark. A very stable bullet that yields 3/4" groups at 75 yards should produce 1" groups at 100 yards, 1-1/4"inch groups at 125 yards, and 1-1/2" groups at 150 yards.

A less stable bullet will not do quite that well, and of course other factors such as wind will open groups up. But a bullet that yields sub one-inch groups at 75 yards cannot be "all over the place" at 100 unless the bullet becomes very unstable once it passes the 75 yard mark. Many of us have experienced that very same thing with Lee REAL bullets. But it would be unusual in the typical sabotted bullet.

There's something important we have all failed to ask Motorbreath. Exactly what does he mean by "all over the place"? Is that three inch groups? Five inch groups? Off the target?
By "all over the place" I mean that I was barely able to get a 5" grouping after 4 shots, snaking the barrel after each shot. A week later, and a thorough cleaning, I was still barely inside 5" with 2 outliers that were 7" out.
 

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3 pellets doesn't tell us much, could be 30gr pellets or 50 gr.

Most people found over time that the 150gr magnum loads just do not work in the average inline rifle.
In fact most people find their best accuracy using from 80 to 120 gr of powder. Also many use loose because there is no way you can get 85gr load with pellets.


Also as Dave said the sabot and bullet combo could be the problem. My 54 shoots great groups but there is one sabot bullet combo that you could not hit the broad side of a barn inside with the doors closed.

Any way we now know the powder grains & pellet form. Now we need the sabot make/ and bullet used and size. to round out the information.
 

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Go from three pellets to two pellets. 100 grains is all you need sometimes, to harvest at 200 yards.

Better-yet, listen to member Cayugad. Loose powder gives you 5 grain variances at the range, that sometimes make all the difference in accuracy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
3 50 grain pellets
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Go from three pellets to two pellets. 100 grains is all you need sometimes, to harvest at 200 yards.

Better-yet, listen to member Cayugad. Loose powder gives you 5 grain variances at the range, that sometimes make all the difference in accuracy.
I'm definitely going to try loose powder on my next shoot. I just have to get a decent measuring device. Any recommendations?
 

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Any brass measure will work. Most of them have a tube within a tube that pulls out for more powder and have graduated lines indicating how much powder is being dispensed. They don't cost much and are very adequate for the job. Just about any place that sells muzzle loading accessories will have them for sale.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Any brass measure will work. Most of them have a tube within a tube that pulls out for more powder and have graduated lines indicating how much powder is being dispensed. They don't cost much and are very adequate for the job. Just about any place that sells muzzle loading accessories will have them for sale.
Thanks, I appreciate the help. I cant find the sabots I was using, but Ill do some research on that, any brands that I should avoid?
 
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