[Old Jim]

I did as most do when I began casting bullets. I bought molds that "looked good" to me. After shooting several months and trying different bullet sizes and shapes I have come to like the Keith style bullets very much. In fact I am shooting them over all the cast and jacketed bullets I have cast and bought.
I'd like to cast my own but have not been able to find the correct mold numbers to buy them.

Where do I look?

I'm casting for a .41 BlackHawk and would like to have a 220 to 230 gr bullet that measures .411. I'm casting for a .44 SuperRedHawk and would like a 250 -260 gr bullet that measures .431.

Thanks

 

[twillis]

Jim, they are nice bullets. NEI has Keith for the 41 but with Walt passing away I do not know if you can get it. http://www.neihandtools.com/ It is their 411-220-PB. This is the mold Dry Creek Bullet Works casts as a 230gr.

RCBS has one that is close http://www.rcbs.com is is their 41-210-SWC

 

[Old Jim]

Thanks twillis,
I'm the proud owner of some of the 220K Dry Creek bullets. I haven't been able to shoot any yet but they do look nice.

 

[twillis]

Dry Creeks Bullets were the best shooting bullet I ever shot in my Taurus Tracker 41. I have not had time to work up a load in my RedHawk 41 yet. It seems a little more picky.

 

[beeman]

For the .44, the Lyman 429421 is supposed to be the original Keith. As an aside note, NEI was purchased I believe, and is still going to making moulds. Also, if you happen to aquire a .45, the 454424 Lyman mould is also the original Keith, although in the 45 I much prefer the RCBS 45-270SAA, throw a 282 grain bullets from wheelweights.

Dave Beeman

 

[Old Jim]

Thanks guys, As usual, great information on this forum.

 

[humpty]

I have a 431244 Lyman mould. It throws a .431 255gr bullet, supposed to be a modified keith desigh by somebody named Thompsen, I think. But it has a gas check groove, and always gets lube in the groove, as I have no interest in using gas checks. I occasionaly see another at a gun show.
I'd like a 431421, since my ruger has a .431 groove dia.
The 429421 is accurate in my vaquero, at cowboy velocities, but leads badly. Guess I'll just buy bullets.
Humpty

 

[Jack Monteith]

Hi, Gents:
Lyman altered Keith's design over the years, much to his displeasure. IIRC, they narrowed the front driving band and round bottomed the grease groove. While the reduction in lube capacity probably doesn't hurt with today's lubes, the narrow front driving band can slip when it hits the rifling. RCBS modeled the 44-250-K after some of Elmer's originals and many think it's a superior bullet. Ray Thompson designed the 431244 (Lyman #46).

Elmer didn't claim he invented the semi-wadcutter. "My bullet is not the first with a flat point and square shoulder. Harry Pope used the same type of flat point and wad cutting forward band many years ago. However, the Keith bullet was the first one to incorporate a flat point; a wide, groove diameter band extending in front of the cartridge case; an adequate crimping groove; a wide deep lubrication groove; a good and sufficient width of base band, and a dirt scraper-wad cutter, all on the one bullet." Sixguns by Keith, page 230

Bye
Jack

 

[J Miller]

Jack Monteith,

I have a hard cover copy of Sixguns by Keith and recently bought a copy of Complete Guide to Handloading by Philip B. Sharpe.
Isn't it facinating that with all the new designs, new guns, new ideas of doing things, that we seem to always swing back around to the old basics?

For myself the Lyman 454424 mold I have casts a 268 gr bullet with wheel weights. I have shot many thousands with this mould and have never had a problem with it.

If I could get my casting equipment set up I would be casting from two moulds. The 454190 and 454424.

J

 

[md bullet]

For the .44, the Lyman 429421 is supposed to be the original Keith. As an aside note, NEI was purchased I believe, and is still going to making moulds. Also, if you happen to aquire a .45, the 454424 Lyman mould is also the original Keith, although in the 45 I much prefer the RCBS 45-270SAA, throw a 282 grain bullets from wheelweights.

Dave Beeman

Just a quick comment. The Lyman 429421 is NOT the original Keith bullet. His 429421 was first marketed in molds marked "Ideal" NOT Ideal-Lyman or Lyman. Lyman has truely and completely **** the Keith design. I have 19 different 44 molds and the original Ideal 429421 has the so-called square lubricant groove and the original style crimp groove which does not look like the current crimp groove. If I was an artist I could draw it but I am not so I will try and explain the difference:
The current crimp groove bevels in at an angle until it meets the underside of the front driving band. OK?
The original crimp groove bevels in at an angle until it meets what would be called a reduced shank diameter. That shank diameter then extends forward (upward) until it meets the underside of the front driving band. OK?
Plausible reason was less case neck crimp intrusion into the bullet? But, for whatever reason, that crimp design was eliminated for the current design.
There are a number of 44 Keith designed molds available, e.g., H&G (not sure if they are still available-used to be made in Oregon), LBT (if you can get one), Lachmiller, NEI (again I don't know if they are still available), older style Lyman molds, and the RCBS 44-250-K (my current favorite 44 mold).

By the way, I knew Elmer and am thankful for his willingness to share his VAST knowledge and experience and provide me with very profound insights regarding firearms, ammunition and hunting and I appreciate the fact that he considered me a good friend. His kind is not to be found again.

Be Safe and Responsible,

md bullet

 

[Jack Monteith]

H&G stopped making moulds in 1999. NEI is back in business after the death of old Walt, last I heard.
http://www.neihandtools.com/

LBT is going again and there's a contact at http://www.leverguns.com

Didn't RCBS get into the cast bullet business by buying Lachmiller?

I wish I'd had a chance to meet Elmer. I knew a couple of old-timers raised in the same world that Elmer was and they don't make them that way anymore.

Bye
Jack

 

[md bullet]

I have a 431244 Lyman mould. It throws a .431 255gr bullet, supposed to be a modified keith desigh by somebody named Thompsen, I think. But it has a gas check groove, and always gets lube in the groove, as I have no interest in using gas checks. I occasionaly see another at a gun show.
I'd like a 431421, since my ruger has a .431 groove dia.
The 429421 is accurate in my vaquero, at cowboy velocities, but leads badly. Guess I'll just buy bullets.
Humpty

Humpty,
Unless Lyman has changed their mold numbering system that Lyman mold you have is 429244 and was designed by Ray Thompson (not Thompsen). I might mention that if you don't use gas checks on bullets designed to be used with gas checks, the degree of accuracy GENERALLY suffers when compared to the same bullet used with gas check. You can easily cast bullets (depending upon the alloy) that can range in diameter at least two thousandths of an inch. However, I don't believe that is your problem. Naturally, without checking first hand I cannot say what the problem actually is. But the fact that you said the 429421 is accurate indicates your alloy might be too soft, because you apparently get sufficient accuracy for at least the number of shots you fire and only notice the leading when you clean the revolver? The powder flame may be too hot for the base of the bullet (alloy/case neck tension/crimp tension and presure time curve). You probably are using one of the faster burning powders; e.g., Alliant Bullseye? You could try a somewhat slower burning powder; e.g., Alliant Unique, and adjust the powder charge to produce the velocities you need for "cowboy action" shooting events? If you are loading to velocity levels of 0700-0800 fps even plain lead should suffice with the proper lubricant.

Be Safe and Responsible,


md bullet

 

[Lloyd Smale]

I have a ballistic cast .41 230 swc mold that makes a bullet near identical looking to the square grove 429421 lyman. It is the most accurate .41 bullet in all three of my .41s either with light loads or heavy loads it has shot extreemly well in quite a few other .41s that my buddys have too.

 

[Bigfoot]

NEI has been selling moulds on e-bay with a Texas address. They have been giving discounts and deals to restart the business. I have several of them and they are top notch.

 

[hammerhead357]

On e-bay item number 3658409236 a 44 250 number 503 by H&G ends [email protected] hrs bid when I left was 112.50 w/handles Hammerhead