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Discussion Starter #1
Marshall (or ?)

I am going to Fire Lap my Clements 5 Shot Bisley (45 Colt) to remove a tight spot in the barrel (where the ejector rod is screwed to the barrel).  The cylinder has tight chambers and the throats are just a hair under 0.452.  The barrel is running right near 0.450 at the muzzle with the tight spot just a bit under that.  

My question is:  Should I size the lapping bullets, as I do with any other, to just fit the throats, and then lap? I want to keep the throats from enlarging (or will they not be greatly affected by the process).  I am afraid that if I don't size the lapping slugs that the throats will enlarged too much and a properly sized bullet will not chamber when I am all done.  If you try to load a WLN sized 0.452 they will not chamber(because of the tight throats, but a loaded 0.454 bullet might not fit in the cylinder at all.  

Also, what would be an acceptable load of Bullseye to use with 300 to 325 grain lapping bullets?  I don't have anything lighter, but I could get some if need be.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks.

5 Shot
Vancouver, WA.


(Edited by 5 Shot at 12<!--emo&:0--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->7 pm on Oct. 8, 2001)
 

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5 shot, I'm a new guy with respect to revolver stuff, but I think that you queston has been answered by Marshall in the "Lapping my SBH" thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
New Guy,

Thanks for pointing that one out - I missed Marshall's post.  

I do however still have a question regarding the correct charge of Bullseye to use with 300 to 325 grain slugs when lapping.  Does anyone have a suggestion?  I have been told 2.0 to 2.5.

5 Shot
 

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Did you shoot it first?  I think you will find that the finish on the Pac-Nor barrels dave uses and his close tolerances overall will give you excellent performance without leading as is.  Thats the case with my gun from Dave.  Try it first and if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Kevin,

I would agree with your assessment of David's work.  My 5 Shot Bisley is a piece of art (you can see a picture of it on David's web site under his cutom work page).  

http://clementscustomguns.com/custom/images/2.jpg

I have been able to shoot groups around 1" offhand at 25 yards, but at standard blackhawk pressures.  As soon as the loads are increased I get increased leading and the groups open up.  I am using Marshall's lube, and I am heat treating the bullets.

I think the problem (a relatively small one) is that I had David hang the Ejector Housing Stud on the barrell with a dovetail, instead of silver solder.  I think that this may be the cause of the tight spot, but I don't really have anyway of knowing for sure.  A sinker will pass easily down the first inch or so of barrell, and then get tight right near the stud.

I have no complaints about the work he did, but I would like to get the most that I can from this revolver.  I only plan to fire about 15 lapping rounds through this gun, and then I will test fire it to see if it helps.  If it does, great, if not I will probably not go any further.  There does not appear to be any thread choke, so I think that any great amount of lapping would be a waste of time and steel.

Good luck with your gun!

5 Shot

(Edited by 5 Shot at 12:19 pm on Oct. 10, 2001)
 

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"Bad Joke Friday" Dan (moderator emeritus)
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5 Shot,

As I'm sure you know, the recommendation is to use just enough of a fast powder to get the bullet out the end of the barrel.  I use 3.5gr. of Red Dot with my 275gr. bullet and that seems to be plenty. I would expect 2.5gr. of Bullseye would get the 300gr. bullet out the barrel.  In any case, the 2.0/2.5gr. would certainly get the bullet far enough in the barrel to allow you to remove the cylinder should you have to push the bullet out the back door.

As an experience handgunner, I'm sure you will  use a process that allows you to know the bullet make it all the way out.  I don't go to the trouble of setting up a paper target, but I do watch to make sure the dirt flies around in the backstop after each shot.

I'll be interested to see how many rounds it will take, particularly if it's a SS barrel.


Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #7
DOK,

Thanks for the info.  This particular revolver has a chrome moly barrel, so I will let you know how it goes.

When it is done I plan on loading some 350 grain WLN GC's and see how well it worked.  I have thought of using WC820, but I want to make sure it is slow enough with the big bullets.

Do you happen to have a Lot # for the WC820 that you used in your write up of H110, H108 & WC820? (excellent job by the way).  WC820 is supplied with a suggested load for 30 Carbine with 110 grain bullet, and this might get me on the right track also.

Thanks again for the input.

5 Shot
 

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"Bad Joke Friday" Dan (moderator emeritus)
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5 Shot,

Powder Valley Inc. is where I got my WC820 and the lot number is 50279.  I just reloaded some more WC820 with the 272gr. bullet from the test you referenced to validate my original findings and was very pleased. The original test was with a SBH 7.5" and I got .85" with 21.0gr. WC820 (best accuracy), and yesterday's test was with a SRH 9.5" and I got .735". So, I'm very pleased with the WC820.  I've found 24.5gr. H110 with the 360gr WLN GC in my .454 Taurus was my most accurate load at 1375 fps.  Considering the WC820 performance relative to H110, I would expect the WC820 to be a good performer with the heavier .45 bullets.  I'm leaving for an extended 6mo. traveling vacation 10/28, but if I get time, I'll try the WC820 with the 360gr. .454 and will let you know the results.

Husker helped me by forwarding some loads for a 5-shot conversion he got from Cast Performance that he has experimented with:

335gr. LBT/22.5gr H110: good starting load for 5-shot conversions

335gr. LBT/25.0 gr H110: good load for 5-shot conversion, very accurate at 100yds, took 160lb boar at 110yds. with it!

360gr. LBT/21.0 gr H110: good starting load for 5-shot conversion.

360gr. LBT/22.0gr H110: great load for 5-shot conversion, average was 1265 fps.

360gr. LBT/23gr H110: gread load for 5-shot conversions, is approaching maximum for 5-shot conversions, good accuracy, heavy recoil. Average velocity 1355 fps.

Again, thanks to Husker for the data (I'm waiting for my .45 5-shot conversion to be complete by Alpha Precision) and hope it helps you get a good, safe and accurate load.

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Dok,

Thanks for all of the info!

As of today, I can't seem to get anyone to give me a lot # for the powder they have.  All I can get is a suggested load for 30 Carbine, the slowest of which is 14.1 grains for 110 grain bullet.

Does this ring a bell with you for the powder you have?

Thanks again, and have a good vacation.

5 Shot
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I just thought I would give you an update on the lapping project.  I lapped the revolver with 20 rounds of 320 grit, and finished with 10 rounds of 500 grit (I didn't trust myself with using a impregnated bob to polish the bore).  There are still some tool marks near the muzzle, but the leading issue is completely gone, and the first groups through the gun after break-in were better than before.

With a 300 WFN over 22 grains of H110, my first group was 1-7/16" center to center (5 shots), with 3 shots touching that measured 0.31" center to center.

I will be working up some fine tuned loads over the next few weeks, and expect to get similar performance with my 5 shot power level loads.  the same bullet over 26.0 grains H110 grouped 2.25" center to center.  I would like to shrink those down a bit, but considering it only has a 5-1/2" barrel, this would be more accurate than I could shoot it under field conditions.

I think it is obvious that the constriction in this barrel was a very minor one.  After 15 rounds of the 300WFN/26.0 grns H110 there is absolutely no leading (not even a gray coating on the barrel) - It looks almost as good as it does after a cleaning.  Ten rounds used to be this revolvers limit before a cleaning was in order.  The bullets used were cast and heat treated in the same batch as those that leaded the bore before.  Lube used was Beartooth.

I may decide to lap it a few more round in the spring, but for know I need to get ready to get a late season white tail!

5 Shot
 

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"Bad Joke Friday" Dan (moderator emeritus)
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5-shot,

Sorry that I apparently missed your question in your next to last post.  

If memory serves me correctly, I received a page or two of loads for use with the WC820 -- which included .44mag and 45 colt. Again, if memory serves me correctly, Jeff is the individual at Powder Valley Inc. that I talked to and who seems to be a good person to talk with about various powders. I would be surprised that he would not be able to identify the lot number(s) available.  The web site is www.powdervalleyinc.com and the number is 800-227-4299.

You information on the lapping results is a pleasent surprise in the limited number of rounds required. My experience with lapping is that while it does improve accuracy, the reduction in leading is every bit as important a result.

Sure is nice when things work out well -- kinda makes all that clean living worth while!!

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I did talk to Powder Valley, and I was told that they don't have WC820 any more.  They are selling H108 instead, but as you noted in you post - H108 is not the same as the lot of WC820 that you had.  I want something closer to H110, so I will find a slow lot of WC820 to shoot.

5 Shot
 

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"Bad Joke Friday" Dan (moderator emeritus)
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5-shot,

When I bought mime only about 2 months ago, I had the choice of new WC820 or for about &#367 less per 8 lb. container, I got "pulled" WC820.  

I suspose it's possible that military surplus will be a lot harder to find for a while. And yes, would agree, at least with the H108 lot I got, that it's not that close t0 H110.

Dan
 
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