[James Gates]

I have not read Pearce's article and really don't know what his problem is with the 265 LBT bullets. If I am not mistaken the Beartooth LBT 265 WFN is no longer than the Keith 250 #429421 and that bullet has been used for at least 50 years at velocitys as low as 900 fps? In preparation for the Meat test we are doing in South Florida, we have shot the Beartooth LBT 265 at velocities between 900 and 1200 fps in .44 Specials, 1200 to 1400 fps in the Ruger SBH, and 1400 fps up in the Marlin 1894P. Even lobbing them into a big 100 yard target at 100 yards with a 1950 S&W .44 Special (1000 fps) we have seen no key holes! All bullets were sized at .432"
Now....For the 90 day delay in recieving your bullets. Americans have become too accustomed to the Wally Mart "Get It Quick!" syndrome. Have you checked as of late the time it takes to get custom rifle stock or barrel work? Yes, Mashall's bullets are "Custom" bullets in every sense of the word. The answer is simple.....figure out what your supply of bullets would be for 90 days, put an order in, and when your bullets arrive re-enter another 90 day supply order. While waiting for your first order, bug some quick-ship machine made stuff and pretice!
As for moulding your own.....it'a a nice pastime, but I for one would rather let Marshall worry about quality, sizing, heat treating, proper alloy, and all the rest!
Am I super loyal to Beartooth bullets, you betcha! In 40 some odd years of shooting hard cast, I have never found (or could cast) a better game and target bullet! The days of consistant wheelweight and scrap alloy is over. Everthing is more expensive. With all this in mind, a revolving 90 day shipment and order entry does not look all that bad to me!
Best Regards as Always, James

 

[James Gates]

Hello Changeling....Good to hear back from you! I don't know Pearce, his background, or his qualifications.....so I can't comment on his article. We do know that stabilization is a relationship to bullet length and velocity, not weight. We also know that rotational spin is not affected by air resistance to any great degree, therefore a bullet with a large meplat maitains rotational spin as well as a spitzer. Once maintaining rotational spin by the velocity/barrel twist at bullet release, the bullet loses very little spin in its flight. It is true that a wide meplat does cause more forward air resistance, therefore a faster loss in velocity....But, quite frankly has little loss within normal handgun ranges. As you know there are many factors in whether or not a bullet leaves the barrel with full spin, etc..undersize bullets, proper size for chamber throats, voids in the bullet, and many more.
I don't subscribe to th ultra heavy handgun bullets (but, thats another story) as I want enough velocity to cause the large meplat to give a large wound channel. I think the LBT 265 gr WFN GC may well be the best actual game bullet. No...I don't shoot sticks and boards, wet paper, etc....We shoot game and look at the balance between penetration and wound channel. We don't shoot Griz, Moose, or Elk...But do kill many wild boar hogs in the 400+ pound class.
As for the Meat Shoot Tests....We are shooting trapped and free running wild hogs on a South Florida Ranch, as well as along the Swannnee River. We are in the process of testing some 13 different Beartooth .44 calibre bullet weights at various velocities. As nothing is absolute, due to all the shot angles, etc...only time and careful analysis will give some ideas on bullet perfomance. It my hope that the forum would contribute to the database, but we have recieved only one reply. From this I can only surmiss that the forum is interested more in the techo side of handgunning than actual hunting performance of hard cast bullets.
Best Regards, James

 

[James Gates]

Chick (Husker) and Mike......Thank you for your kind replies! With the shooting tests we are not trying to prove or disprove anything, but rather compile into a database form results that might be interesting in the selection of handgun hunting bullets. Measurements are fine, but I also need your "Gut Feelings" about the bullet's performance.
Yes...We arevery fortunate in Florida to have the long big game season (Nov.10 to Jan,20) anf great bag limits(2 deer a day, no season limit). Wild hogs are considered game animal only on govt.land and can be hunted year round on orivate land. With the cheap 10 day out of state lincese (&#3626.50), we are now getting hunters from all over.
Florida woods and waters are different than any I've hunted in the USA. We are on the edge of the sub-tropics and the land is very flat. Deer and hogs feed more at night and in some places we use dogs to get them up.
We have some forum members coming down this year and maybe more will next year. We put on quite a feed/hunt at Thanksgiving.
Best Regards, James

 

[James Gates]

Changeling ans All....It appears that, due to lack of interest, the meat Shoot questionaire has gotton buried by more recent new posts.
The sheet was quite simple to use and was based on what we are entering into the database.
If you, or anyone else, will contribute send me an email and I will email you a copy back.
We are beginning to get some interesting results from outside of the forum.
Basically, due to meplat and velocity of the 250/280 gr bullets appear to have the best terminal performance. The LBT 265 gr is tops, with enough weight for more than adequate pemetration on 400+ pound hogs and the .340" meplat
causing excellent permanent wound channels. I know this goes contrary to some shooters idea about the 300+ gr bullets, but facts are facts.
Best Regards to All, James

 

[James Gates]

Changeling and Chuck....I just emailed both of you a copy of the form. Side angle shots due require less penetration than endways shots.....however you can rest assured that the Beartooth LBt's, velocity and weight the same, will penetrate far more than an equal jacket bullet.
Thank you both for your help.....Best Regards, James

 

[James Gates]

Jack...It appears that there is little if any difference in the overall penetration between the Beartooth 265 gr LBT bullet and the 300 gr bullet. It looks like the aditional velocity one can get with the 265 gr offsets the aditional weight of the 300 gr. Both are giving complete penetration of side on and quartering shots. Of course, this is not conclusive at present as much more testing needs to be done. All I am doing is passing on the first results as they come in. I don't know what would happen as the animals get over 400+ pound class, but I do know the penetration of even the 240/250 class bullets have been seriously underestimated. Even at velocity, with the 240/250 gr bullets we get complete side and quartering penetration. I do think though the 265 gr up "may" break bones better. The problem, I feel, is that not many actual tests have been made on living tissue and many "think" the 300 gr up bullets kill better.
In the Marlin 1894P, the Beartooth LBT 300 gr LMN DCG GC may prove the best though as one can maintain a good velocity. Here again, these are the first results coing down and until much more data is fed into the database no postive conclusions can be reached.
Best Regards, James