Shooters Forum banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My dad got his PAL yesterday (Canadian :)) which means I'll be getting mine in a week or two barring any difficulties. I've been shooting little air rifles since I was eight or nine years old (I'm 19 now) and I'm quite excited to purchase my first rifle. I'm 99% set on a .22 LR, and I'd rather get a semiautomatic. To me, that spells tons of cheap, fun, simple shooting with an actual firearm. I've been thinking the Ruger 10/22 would be fantastic. It's inexpensive, proven and semiautomatic. I can do a lot of plinking for a little cash -- which is good for a student.

Just a couple notes before I ask some questions: My back yard isn't quite suitable for shooting, since we have neighbors close enough that they wouldn't appreciate the report. If I take a hike about 5 km behind my house, though, there might be a place to do that. I live on the edge of town and there's a forest behind my house. Some people use it for hiking though, so I'd have to be really careful. I've thought about using target / subsonic rounds in the backyard though.

But seeing as you guys have the experience behind you, I wondered what you might have to add. Here are some questions:

Maybe I really should be going for a bolt action instead? I've heard I'll have some problems with target / subsonic rounds in the 10/22, in that the action won't cycle. I don't like that idea though, because I think I'd learn a lot more about shooting, by being able to fire two or three rounds at one target then two or three at another without having to work the bolt. And breathing control :). The CZ 542 (I think that's it) looks like a gem but it's a lot more than the 10/22.

Or I could just be daft in thinking that target / subsonic rounds give off less of a report than regular rounds. Most noise comes from escaping gases, second most from breaking the sound barrier, right? Are target / subsonic rounds much better for lower report?

In general, given I'm a student and someone who is keen on learning to shoot well, what rifle and ammunition combination would you suggest, given my neighbor situation? If nothing comes to mind then I'm sure I can just take a hike and find a place.

Thanks for reading the wall. It's hard not to be excited, finally being this close to getting my first rifle.
 

·
Piney Woods Moderator
Joined
·
6,267 Posts
Congratulations on beginning to shoot. It will be a lifelong sport that will be a lot of fun. I have numerous 22 LR rifles but shoot my two Ruger 10-22s more than any. I have shot all types of ammo out of mine without a problem. I too like you now have a number of neighbors who would not care for me shooting in my back yard. I usually ride my atv about a mile from the house into the woods and shoot there. Just make sure you have a good backstop and hikers should not be a problem. Good old standard 22 LR ammo in the bulk pack is always good to shoot. I always have that on my Christmas list. You will enjoy a good 22 rifle the rest of your life.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
605 Posts
Oh yeah, jodum is right on. I've got 6 Ruger 10/22's, all in different configurations. I won't ever be without one again. Matter of fact, they're in my will ... and no one's gettin' 'em until I go to that "target rich environment in the Sky". A 10/22 and a bulk pack of whatever ammo suits you and have a ball. You will NEVER regret it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,280 Posts
Subsonic and "standard" velocity rounds a lot quieter than the high velocity stuff.

The supersonic 'crack' is very loud, and is actually louder than the escaping gasses. It also disrupts the bullet in flight when it crosses back into the transonic range, which is why all target ammunition is subsonic.

The 10/22 is an excellent first rifle, you'll never wear it out and it will be very reliable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
If you want to learn to shoot really good then get a good single shot rifle. I've found that you shoot better when you know you don't have another shot handy. I own semi autos and single shots for plinking and agree that the semi's are a lot of fun to shoot but the single shot is more satisfying. I'll hit more targets with less rounds using the single. I grew up with a Gustloff trainer that Dad brought home from WWII. It's heavy and not very pretty but it has a bayonet mount, sling and adjustable elevation rear sight and shoots better than any 22 I've ever shot. If you could find one of these for a reasonable sum you may find shooting is more fun when you outshoot your friends.
 

·
The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
Joined
·
36,739 Posts
I like CB Longs in a bolt gun. They are extremely quiet but they won't cycle a stock 10/22.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,290 Posts
I have shot 22 semi-autos and they leave me cold. I never shoot groups that are as tight as I manage with a single-shot or, especially, a bolt-action. Were I a student with limited funds, I would certainly look for a used Marlin bolt-action 22, instead of a 10/22. You specifically mentioned controlling your breath, and that does apply with any firearm, but I have found that when I (not everyone) have it my head that if my shot isn't perfect the gun will be ready to fire another one, without even working the bolt, my shooting technique simply is not as good. Add to that the typical advantage in accuracy you'll get from a decent bolt gun and, in my mind, the choice is clear.

A 22 bolt-action, 270 Winchester and 3" 12 gauge is all any man really needs...unless you're Tang, in which case you also will need a 338 RUM. But, that's a whole 'nother story! ;)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
421 Posts
I agree that a bolt action would be a much better choice for trying to learn the basics of shooting. It would also be more apt to give you the accuracy you want right out of the box. A 10/22 can be pretty accurate, but usually that requires a pretty sizable investment in aftermarket parts, and the skill to change them. Not really a job for a novice!
Any 22 should be shot with many different brands of ammo to learn which one it likes best. Most of the time, that will be a subsonic round.
As far as noise is concerned, the real quiet rounds are CB shorts, CB longs, both by CCI, and Aguila colibri and super colibri rounds. Those can be shot in your back yard from a rifle, and will make less noise than an air rifle. They will NOT cycle a semi action. Subsonic rounds are too noisy to shoot in your backyard and MAY NOT cycle a semi action. None of these are an issue with a bolt action.
If you are really interested in learning to shoot, buy a bolt action. If you just want to buy cheap bulk ammo and plink, not concerned with accuracy, get the 10/22.
Good luck, and let us know what you decide!
BTW, welcome to the forum!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,870 Posts
Much as I appreciate the popularity and possibilities of the 10/22, a bolt gun is the way to go for a first "learn to shoot" gun. The CZ is a fine choice, though pricier than the Ruger (you get what you pay for). The used market offers a lot of good buys on a variety of bolt actions.
About the low power CB ammo. I use it in my backyard. It is quiet - though comparisons to a BB gun are a bit off. It's surely louder than my Daisy or my Gamo. Also, Aquila notes that the Colibri (375 fps) ammo should not be shot from rifles as the bullet may not make it out of the barrel. The Super Colibri is a bit hotter at 500 fps.
Pete
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
620 Posts
I would also buy a single shot .22LR, maybe a Marlin or a Savage. You can also find great deals on older used rifles too if you look around. My first rifle was a 10/22 but I was not interested in shooting as accurate as I could at the time. I was just happy at 11 years old to be shooting a "real" gun and not a pellet gun. When I was about 14 I bought a bunch of aftermarket parts for it when they first started marketing the stuff to make it more accurate. It shot better, but I was still shooting to fast to get the best accuracy out of it. Now my 5 main hunting rifles are all custom with custom barrels, stocks, triggers....etc.... I'll warn you now... it's an addiction, but a relatively good addiction. I once owned a Benelli R1 in .300 win mag which is an auto loader, but have since sold it for a bolt due to the fact that in general, bolts or single shots are more accurate. Now the only semi-auto I own for target/ hunting purposes is my 10/22.

Good luck with what will hopefully be a life long hobby!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,448 Posts
The semi-autos will cost you more in ammunition, as you can blow through $50 worth a week. It doesn't take a lot of that kind of shooting to justify a more expensive rifle that isn't as hungry.

See if you can go to a commercial range where they will rent you the use of the rifles you are interested in for a day so you can see for yourself how you feel about them. Or see if your neighbors have them and want to go shooting so you can try them out.

If I were buying one today, I'd probably look at something like a biathlon rife, used. A fast bolt action without sacrificing accuracy. Learning to work a bolt fast, by the way, is a skill you will value in hunting with more powerful cartridges later in life. Many of those don't come in semi-autos that are very accurate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Well you have me just about convinced that a bolt-action would be a much better choice. Thanks for the advice, guys :). I checked out the 452 on CZ's website and it says that it's being discontinued for 2010. They're moving it to the 455 line, which doesn't come with iron sights. I want iron sights :(. Think it might be hard to find a 452, now?

One concern I have with the 452 is that it looks really nice (what an odd concern). How much of the price is covering good looks? Or is it really all going toward an excellent shooter.

Finally, what kind of ruggedness should I expect with a .22, either a 10/22 or a 452? Bad idea to shoot in the rain? How about dusty / muddy, snowy, high or low humidity? I imagine that's no problem at all except for pouring rain or tons of dust without cleaning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,618 Posts
I'll throw some other suggestions up. Have you considered a pump action (ie Rem 572, Henry or a Taurus) and then there is the lever actions by Marlin or Henry. Both actions can feed shorts, longs and long rifles and you still have a repeater with a large mag capicity. The Remington 552 Speedmaster (auto loading) also handles shorts, longs and long rifles, when I had mine it also worked but traded it for a Stoeger Luger .22LR.

CD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
583 Posts
the Ruger 10/22 was the first rifle I purchased as well although I had a fair piece of practice on bolt guns beore the purchase. After buying it, like Sinbad, I soon decided it would be on the short list that I would never be without. I would highly suggest buying a Volquartsen custom high perormance kit or whatever version of the kit they are selling now. it includes an overtravel adjustable triger, spring and shims, and a urithane replacement for the steel bolt stop pin. This eliminates the metal on metal clang you hear each time a fired round cycles the bolt. it is worth every penny. It may also include an extended magazine release and a modiied bolt stop plate that will release the locked open bolt easier than the stok one. these parts are made to be drop in and if you can strip the gun for cleaning you can swap the new parts in. Volquartsen and other manufacturers also have tons of aftermarket accessories that can be added to the basic 10/22 to customize it a million different ways. while a bolt gun will be more accurate and will probably teach you better marksmanship a tuned up 10/22 with shoot beter than I am capable of shooting. from a sand bag rest mine will make one ragged hole out of a magazine worth of rounds out to 50 yards. It kills critters like bunnies and racoons like nobody's business. Although I would not recomend sub sonic rounds on racoons. with sub sonic rounds a racoon just rubs the spot the bullet went in and then needs another dose. I like the Remington jacketed hollow points the best although they are loud and not back yard shooters. Cabelas had them on sale 2 weeks ago, 525 rnd box for $20.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
421 Posts
Well you have me just about convinced that a bolt-action would be a much better choice. Thanks for the advice, guys :). I checked out the 452 on CZ's website and it says that it's being discontinued for 2010. They're moving it to the 455 line, which doesn't come with iron sights. I want iron sights :(. Think it might be hard to find a 452, now?

One concern I have with the 452 is that it looks really nice (what an odd concern). How much of the price is covering good looks? Or is it really all going toward an excellent shooter.

Finally, what kind of ruggedness should I expect with a .22, either a 10/22 or a 452? Bad idea to shoot in the rain? How about dusty / muddy, snowy, high or low humidity? I imagine that's no problem at all except for pouring rain or tons of dust without cleaning.
I would not be concerned about taking any rifle hunting in the rain or snow, etc. if you are taking proper care of it. Every time you return from a hunt or a shooting session you should clean it well. That should be a habit, with no exceptions! You will hear from many that you should not clean the barrel of a 22 unless the accuracy falls off, but even if you subscribe to that way of thinking you still should clean the rest of the gun. A good wipe down with an oily rag on all metal parts will usually do the trick. Something made for wood, like wax, should be used on the stock.
Now, as far as bolts are concerned, have you considered a Savage or a Marlin? Both make excellent bolt action 22 rifles, as does CZ. IMO, the CZ is a very well made rifle, and worth the money, but so is a Savage or a Marlin. Also, as mentioned, lever rifles are a lot of fun to shoot, and can be very accurate. Henry is a good choice, although I would spend a little extra and get one with metal sights instead of the plastic. Marlin makes what is arguably the best lever, the 39A, whaich is the oldest gun still in production, and for good reason.
There are many choices, so do not limit yourself to one gun, like the CZ. If you can, go to a shop that carries different models and handle them all, including the used ones. Don't discount used either! I would much rather have an older used Marlin 39A than any other 22 if I could have just one!
Good luck, and let us know how you make out!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,870 Posts
Unclenick: Good to read that post. I have always hesitated to suggest a biathlon rifle even though they are exactly the thing. I bought one for myself when I retired a few years ago.
They are marvelous pieces of shooting machinery. Stunningly accurate (watch the upcoming Olympics and you'll see them winning Gold medals), durable/reliable - on a skier's back for goodness sake.
The best are made by Anschutz, Ishmash, and Suhl. Not one of them is under $2000. The last used Suhl that I saw recently was at $2700.
The easiest to find and the one used the most is the Anschutz at nearly three grand.
Marlin made (makes?) a summer biathlon rifle. the 2000L; it does not have the super fast bolt that the others have.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
788 Posts
If you want to learn to shoot, then I would highly recommend a bolt action. It doesn't have to be a single shot.
Once you have learned how to shoot (that is, hit what you are aiming at), then go ahead and get a fun gun like a 10-22. It is even more fun when you can hit what you are aiming at.
As for options, you can start at the lower price end with some of the Savage or Marlin products; still very serviceable for your needs. Then you go up in price to the Ruger, CZ and Anschutz.
Once you have the rifle, buy a brick of standard velocity ammunition and get some paper targets and work on improving your group size.
As for shooting conditions, you will learn best when the weather is not rainy or really uncomfortable. Use a good product (I use Break Free) to wipe down the metal, and dry it off if does get wet. The barrel needs to be wiped down periodically as well (as well as cleaned occasionally).
I say paper targets, as you said you wanted to learn to shoot. Tin cans, and other targets, are great for fun, but don't provide the positive reinforcement that paper will. Once you get better, certainly have some fun as part of your learning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Would the Savage MkII and Marlin 981 be good choices?

Unclenick: Good to read that post. I have always hesitated to suggest a biathlon rifle even though they are exactly the thing. I bought one for myself when I retired a few years ago.
They are marvelous pieces of shooting machinery. Stunningly accurate (watch the upcoming Olympics and you'll see them winning Gold medals), durable/reliable - on a skier's back for goodness sake.
The best are made by Anschutz, Ishmash, and Suhl. Not one of them is under $2000. The last used Suhl that I saw recently was at $2700.
The easiest to find and the one used the most is the Anschutz at nearly three grand.
Marlin made (makes?) a summer biathlon rifle. the 2000L; it does not have the super fast bolt that the others have.
I don't have near that much money...
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top