[petejj]

Hi, guys could some kind sole help me i am new to reloading and i have purchased a lee Th anniversary kit and deluxe rifle die set. the powder i was sold is hodgdon 4895, cc small rifle primers and i am loading once fired brass in .223 the lee loading book says 25 grains which i have carefully checked with my safety scales(lee) and then tryed the 1.6 scoop that is recommended but when i checked the weight it comes in at about 23.3 -24.0 grains why is this so and should i be concerned thank pete

 

[UnCruel]

In my experience, the Lee powder dippers are a very imprecise way to measure powder. If you are getting only a 0.7 grain variation, then you are doing better than I am. Using a consistent motion is important.

If I were you, I would start with the dipper, then use a powder trickler to bring the charge weight up to where you want it.

If I were me , I would use an RCBS ChargeMaster or a Lee Perfect Powder Measure.

 

[Marshal Kane]

You can leave the 23-24 gr. powder charge on the scale, then scoop a bit more powder into the scoop and trickle the powder onto the scale until you reach the 25 grain charge if that's what you need.

You may find by varying your powder charge, that best accuracy may be achieved by something other than 25 grains in which case you may have to use another scoop and trickle (if needed) onto the scale as previously mentioned. In no case should you exceed the maximum recommended charge.

When I reload for rifle cartridges, I always finish off the charge with a trickler to be precise. Hope this helps.

 

[mikana]

The dippers almost always throw light. However, they can be very consistent. Here's a video that will help you:

I too use the closest dipper then trickle on the scale.

 

[MikeG]

Right. It's all in the technique. The dipper, at heart, is not really doing anything different than a powder measure. Powder fills a cavity and the variances come from random packing of the kernels, how much pressure is applied to fill the cavity, operator consistency, etc.

But powders do vary by bulk density and so the dippers have to be a bit light to be perfectly safe. Anyway they can be useful tools, within limitations. If you want to go heavier then just trickle a bit more in, as suggested.

 

[NFG]

IBIN using lee dippers for so long I can't remember when I first acquired them...I have both the old and the new sets, plus I've made many home made dippers for specific pistol loads. I also have 6 different powder measures to boot.

As Mike said...they are and act just like any powder measure...they measure VOLUME more than weight...and you need to develope a technique for ANY of them to throw uniform charges.

My technique is to rap the handle against the stops at both ends...not hard just sharply...and use an aluminum wedge available or can be made which removes the weight of the powder column from the center of the powder cavity so the weight of the powder has less affect on the amount of powder filling the cavity. Not sure it really works but the theory is sound.

Even at that and depending on the bulk of the powder and size of the granuals, keeping within a couple of tenths consistently during a run is pretty routine...you just have to practice.

Mikana posted an excellent example.

FWIW going anal with powder weights except for the most exacting target work won't get you all that much...there are so many other areas to consider and put your time in on...I quit weighing powder charges a long time ago except for specific calibers and varmin/target/competition work...and then a slight variation in case volume will blow all that work out the tube...(pun intended ) If you don't weigh and measure everthing else to the "Nth" degree and your rifle isn't almost perfect to begin with, the only variation you will see in your targets is in your mind...no diss intended...I went through all this way back when.

BUT...that being said...I weigh my 17 FB, 17 Rem, 20 Practical and 222/223 cal charges, then trickle and get as close as possible...that is because small volume cases can get a bit touchy as far as pressure goes with a tenth or two difference when you're up close to the pressure wall and shooting in hot weather...and varmint/target accuracy can go south just as fast.

But it's all good practice and the knowledge gained is worth the time...

Luck

 

[al_sway]

Hi, guys could some kind sole help me i am new to reloading and i have purchased a lee Th anniversary kit and deluxe rifle die set. the powder i was sold is hodgdon 4895, cc small rifle primers and i am loading once fired brass in .223 the lee loading book says 25 grains which i have carefully checked with my safety scales(lee) and then tryed the 1.6 scoop that is recommended but when i checked the weight it comes in at about 23.3 -24.0 grains why is this so and should i be concerned thank pete

Despite what some have said, they are not imprecise. The challenge is that they are not very flexible.
If it were me, I would go ahead and load with the dippers. You have proven to your satisfaction that it is slighlty under the stated load; therefore it should be safe. Try the load and see how it shoots. If you are really not satsifed with its accuracy or its velocity, then spend the extra time trickling powder. You might find your time is better spent shooting.
You should not be concerned.

 

[Lynn]

I use the method Marshal discribed it works vary well and is as fast or faster than an electronic scale that measures the charge for you (IMHO: was a waste of $2C). For a batch of 50 or more loads I usually use my RCBS powder measure if the powder throws good from it (if not it's back to the Lee measures).

 

[Cheezywan]

Good friend of mine uses the Lee dippers exclusively. He can throw a charge into my scale time after time that needs no change by trickleing at all to be within a tenth.

Is all about consistant technique and rythem as far as I can see!

I can do near as well (though NOT as fast) as he can!

Good method that makes good ammunition from my seat!

Cheezywan

 

[tacklebury]

Lee Dippers vs. accuracy

I get quite accurate loads, but the reason most people get light loads is that they dip and wipe as that video shows. I find that using very tiny bounces on the edge of my powder container and re-scooping 2-3 times will level it and pack the dipper consistently. Once you get the hang of it, typically one redip and about 3 seconds is all it takes. 8) My only downside to dippers is trying to hit some of the oddball loads. I make sure that for a quick set of rounds I include the CC dipper size along with grain weight for easy reproduction.

 

[ranger335v]

Dippers of any kind are made for people who not only don't have a measure but don't have a scale. Since you do have a scale, trickle your charges up to what ever you wish them to be.

 

[kdub]

Agree with Ranger - have the full complement of Lee dippers and use whichever throws a weight a grain or two under what I want, then trickle to bring up the load to desired weight. Being retired and time is not really a major consideration, all charges get weighed on a digital scale prior to being dumped into the case. The Lee dippers work well for this process.

 

[broom_jm]

If I'm loading a round that does not absolutely require a precise amount of powder, and is a low to middle weight charge, I'm fine with taking a few minutes to figure out which dipper to use. I can usually determine how to "load" the dipper to get a charge that is close enough for my particular needs. A good example of this is the Trail Boss loads I use in my 44/40, where I'm not worried about over-charging the case, anyway. Also, I have found a few .243 Winchester loads, over the years, that are not sensitive to +/- .6gr variance, at least in terms of accuracy.

However, I would say about 80% of the time, I just use my RCBS powder measure and trickle up to exactly what I want, on a digital scale. It's not quite as fast, but for as many rounds as I shoot these days, I'm willing to take the time.

 

[jmortimer]

First off, even if you use dippers exclusively as I do you still need a scale. You must ensure that new powder "kegs" or containers are properly labeled when you first open them and use them for the first time. Also, if you use more than one powder you need to check your first dipper load to ensure you have not cross contaminated powders. If you are like me and only use Unique then you break out the scale every year or two. I hate using scales. With practice you can get within a tenth which is good for most any use short of bench rest or long range shooting. I'm good for .2 or better and that is just fine for me as I don't load to max. I have two sets so I can modify volume if necessary.

 

[Colohunter]

As mentioned several times above I used to use the dipper/trickle method. It can be very convenient to use the dipper to get you close to the charge you are going for, then use a trickler to get the charge right where you want it. I used that method for several years until I finally bought an RCBS Chargemaster.

 

[digisol]

Many handloaders would be very concerned with a .7 variation especially with a 9mm or 38spl where a .7 error would be possibly dangerous, if your desired powder charge is meant to be X.2 then a charge of X.9 would be a substantial difference, whatever your doing its not consistent.

The use of Lee dippers is likely no less consistent than using a BR high grade powder thrower, but with all similar ways of finding that charge it MUST be done exactly the same with each scoop or throw, no tapping or compressing of the powder, scoop from the same depth etc etc.

The dippers should give the same charge if overfilled and scraped of with a knife "the same knife" or something other thats suitable, but done the same way each time, the use of even the best powder thrower will give different charge weights if tapped or using the handle differentlly, once a good rythym is going you should get accuracy good enough for anyone.

If using the dippers, which is a simple way to charge once you have thee charge weight the same with each scoop it should work no problems, if they do not give the exact load your after file the scoop down a little, a small amount at a time, this should work out fine.

I tossed a Lee safety scale in the bin, complete rubbish IMHO, grab a Lyman 505 or a RCBS scale that will work 100% better than that Lee device for finding those hidden tenths.