[boonedockssaint]

So first we need a really religious person to start!(That's not me.. I am not religious) Get back to me I just want to talk about Jesus and in what ever venue or topic you would like! No bashing just edification for JC the Man! How about God and Guns and how we can be men of faith and men that kill with guns? How does that sound! Why do when I head to church I take my Bible and my rifle?

 

[marsms]

I don't know that I'd call myself really religious...religion has been my upbringing right from day one, so I am most certainly religious, but...maybe I'd sooner call myself spiritual before really religious?

 

[boonedockssaint]

I would prefer not to be religious or spiritual as they are generic and lack meaning in this day and age. IF we follow Jesus maybe we need to find a new or old word that coins the ideas and ideals of him more accurately. I hate to say it but even the term "christian" in most circle is a vague misnomer used by the masses.

 

[marsms]

Certainly true enough.

I prefer spiritual, because as much of a fan as I am of (in my Roman Catholic religion) the trinity, the divine miracles, and everything that God provides us with on a daily basis, I still find that I disagree with several teachings of the church. I am then reminded (by myself, and certainly not by my good, sweet christian mother) that the institution that is the church is really only one man's version of what he believes God to be.

Spiritual to me means that I'm out in the woods well before first light, listening to the birds sing to the daylight. By being spiritual, instead of being in church every Sunday (which I still often am, by the way), I sit and watch the squirrels playing, hopping from branch to branch on the big poplars. I get to enjoy the doe and fawn feeding in the canola field on a frosty morning, and listen to the bucks fight at a crisp and clear dawn. I feel, by being spiritual rather than necessarily being religious, I'm not trapped by the modern day Vatican's view on what mold God should conform to. I'm free to enjoy what he has given us.

That's what it means to me to be spiritual.

 

[boonedockssaint]

That's what it means to me to be spiritual.

If that is the case most of the members on this board are spiritual!

 

[marsms]

And I'm surely not going to complain about that!

 

[308shtr]

I have friends whose church does not allow the use of musical instruments saying that since they are not specifically used in New Testament worship they are not allowed. There is some truly beautiful a-Capella singing in that church.

Using that same argument, i.e. if it isn't in the New testament it isn't allowed, should we all give up our guns? They are obviously un-Biblical.

 

[RaySendero]

I'll bet that if Jesus entered into this discussion, Y'all would quickly switch from "religious" and "spritual" to:

Christian!!!

 

[marsms]

Ray -

I'm already there. Been Roman Catholic since day two of my life. I just prefer to not have my beliefs restricted by a "governing body".

 

[Terry Koupe]

I am pagan, we just celebrated Yule. The Earth gives me what I need. I don't put chemicals on my garden or yard. My wife and I don't eat commercially grown meat, because of the chemicals. I love to hunt, but I pull the trigger to put food on the table, or to protect(varmints) my food supply. Pelts from varmints and food animals are utilized in my house. I do not "trophy" hunt, removing great genetics seems...counterproductive. I wish everyone a safe and productive year. Please respect your food supply.

 

[marsms]

Terry:

You claim to be a pagan, and yet I don't get that "warlock" feeling from you. Certainly it's not possible that public opinion and stereyotypes have led me astray! =P

Have a Merry Christmas guys! (Or whatever your religion specific holiday might be).

 

[Terry Koupe]

Christianity is not defined by just Baptists, or Catholics. Pagans also have a wide variety of individual beliefs, i.e., Wiccans, Shamans, et. al. I have my own beliefs... my church is my garden, my lawn, my land, the breath I take, the water I drink, and the wind(it's cold here) piercing my eyes. By the way, paganism is the first religion(gimme that old time religion!).

 

[jmortimer]

Pagans worship the creation not the Creator. Believe what you want . You either get the "call" or not. In the end it is determinism. Back to the subject, Jesus attacked the "religious" and most Christians recognize that merely being religious is not enough. Most have adopted "spiritual" or "born again" when describing themselves but the terms have become tired and "played." I would suggest that as Christrians and members of the Body of Christ we are alive in the ultimate sense - and the best word to describe us all as members of the Body of Christ is "Free" - we are Free especially from religion.

 

[Terry Koupe]

"Most" peoples recognized a really nice guy, 2000 or so years ago, and the christians named hin Jesus. It is noted in several different cultures. I find it interesting that virtually all religions have basically "the ten commandments". Don't kill, don't steal, don't screw around on your wife. The only thing really different is that the christain religion forbids learning about other religions. The pagan religion encourages learning, because it engengers learn ing. Pagans also believe in"Let it be". If it works for one civilization, then let them just go with it. Christians seem to want to expand their beliefs, because they are right?????? I dunno, when it coimes to religion, there is no right or wrong, just don't f**k with someone else.
For Example:
Mayans and Inca versus Europeans
North American Indians versus U.S.A.
Hawaiian Islanders versus U.S.A.

Seriously, I encourage a dialog, not a heated diatribe. Please, do not fire a shot, thinking I will not retaliate.
I love the Earth(my mother) and all it's intities(luna moths, eagles, coyotes(they have their place!).
I hope the yule finds well and warm, for it will some time for warmrth from the Sun.

 

[marsms]

Terry, I like your style. You're not afraid to say what you believe, and it seems (at least to me), that you believe what you want. That sits well with me, and I tend to be (or perhaps I should more accurately say, try to be) the same way.

For all the downfalls of Christianity (many of course, self-inflicted), I still feel bad for the Christian body in general. Christianity, being such a major religion, is also so often under attack. It seems that every day, Christians are losing their rights in order to not upset some body of a minority religion. For instance, "I don't believe in God, and it upsets me that He is mentioned in the graduation ceremony of our very much catholic University, so you should take any mention of catholicism out." (True event that happened out here just last year...FYI, they did remove all mentions of anything that could be construed as Christian, Catholic, or anything to do with the Trinity.)

Personally, I think as long as you believe in your heart that He exists (whoever the He may be for you), and you trust Him and His word, you're golden. There's not a thing that can upset the perfect balance of a content soul.

 

[Terry Koupe]

I understand you, and, I like your style also. We (U.S.A.) are the melting pot, made up of virtually all races and religions in the world. Whose religion should we shun? or not mention? or slander? or talk about? My point is the Christians in the U.S.A. should get used to the fact that they are just one of a host of religions here, not just the overwhelming majority. The Ten Commandments are alive and well, maybe not called that, maybe not written in english. F.Y.I., I went to a Catholic high school also...great education and the Sisters and Brothers were just GREAT people.

 

[Terry Koupe]

I understand you and believe you to be a good and honest soul. Funny, people with such diverse beliefs could have a discussion(not argument). Congress could maybe learn a lesson! I am also a product of a Catholic high school(Bishop Kelley High School, class of '75, Tulsa). May the season bring you and your family good health...and good cheer!
Terry

 

[T-Bone]

"Most" peoples recognized a really nice guy, 2000 or so years ago, and the christians named hin Jesus. It is noted in several different cultures. I find it interesting that virtually all religions have basically "the ten commandments". Don't kill, don't steal, don't screw around on your wife. The only thing really different is that the christain religion forbids learning about other religions. The pagan religion encourages learning, because it engengers learn ing. Pagans also believe in"Let it be". If it works for one civilization, then let them just go with it. Christians seem to want to expand their beliefs, because they are right?????? I dunno, when it coimes to religion, there is no right or wrong, just don't f**k with someone else.
For Example:
Mayans and Inca versus Europeans
North American Indians versus U.S.A.
Hawaiian Islanders versus U.S.A.

Seriously, I encourage a dialog, not a heated diatribe. Please, do not fire a shot, thinking I will not retaliate.
I love the Earth(my mother) and all it's intities(luna moths, eagles, coyotes(they have their place!).
I hope the yule finds well and warm, for it will some time for warmrth from the Sun.

The reason most cultures have the 10 commandments is because God put them in their hearts:

“14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.” (Ro 2:14-16 NAS95)

Jesus, a nice guy?

He claimed to be God.

“"I and the Father are one."” (Joh 10:30 NAS95)

He told men who claimed to be righteous in their own efforts that they were "white-washed tombs".

“"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness.” (Mt 23:27 NAS95)

He told sinners that they would be going to the lake of fire.

“"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part [will be] in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."” (Re 21:8 NAS95)

Listen, Jesus was much more than a nice guy. He is God. We need His righteousness because ours is worthless.

“For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.” (Isa 64:6 NAS95)

When you worship the creation rather than the Creator, you do not honor God which is the first and greatest commandment.

“18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 ¶ because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.” (Ro 1:18-25 NAS95)

When we realize that we have no hope in our own power and mourn over our sin and reach out to God for mercy and forgiveness and repent, He shows us that Jesus died for us so that we could hve His righteousness on our behalf.

“3 ¶ "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. 5 "Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth. 6 "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. 7 "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. 8 "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.” (Mt 5:3-8 NAS95)

Those that confess Jesus as Lord and believe that He died for their sins will receive this mercy and so much more.

“9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.” (Ro 10:9-10 NAS95)

I hope this helps, Terry.

Bill

 

[308shtr]

The reason most cultures have the 10 commandments is because God put them in their hearts:



Jesus, a nice guy?

He claimed to be God.



He told men who claimed to be righteous in their own efforts that they were "white-washed tombs".



He told sinners that they would be going to the lake of fire.



Listen, Jesus was much more than a nice guy. He is God. We need His righteousness because ours is worthless.



When you worship the creation rather than the Creator, you do not honor God which is the first and greatest commandment.



When we realize that we have no hope in our own power and mourn over our sin and reach out to God for mercy and forgiveness and repent, He shows us that Jesus died for us so that we could hve His righteousness on our behalf.



Those that confess Jesus as Lord and believe that He died for their sins will receive this mercy and so much more.



I hope this helps, Terry.

Bill

Amen brother!

 

[[email protected]]

Don't know about Shooting critters and God. I guess I am not sending anything to Heaven or **** when I end the breathing cycle. I can say the following.

For me, what it boils down to is that the only thing different about me is that I have a before and an after.

I was fortunate enough to be raised by folks that were born again. They lovingly watched for the Gospel to convict me. At the age of 11, I became aware of a void in my life that I could not define. My mom was ready and able to spend time with me and enable me to discover that the yearning in my heart was that I was face to spirit with me humanity.

Mom shared her before and after with me. We Christians call this a testimony. That descriptor derived from being able to give voice as to what happened to her when she accepted Christ as her Saviour.

It is not a complicated thing. I was convicted by the Holy Spirit. This conviction was like knowing that bills are due and there is no money in the check bool. I can wish all day long but until someone deems it necessary to reward me with money, I can't pay my bills.

You see, I could not have a relationship with Jesus until I gave up what I wanted to do and surrendered to what I needed to do. I needed to get rid of the sin im my life. The trouble was that I could not do it on my own. At the time I became a Christian, I really did not understand the complete transformation, I just understood that I was different. I knew that a wonderful change had been started in my life. I was created anew because Jesus had paid the price for my sin and He had put the means to succeed (eternally) in my life check book.

I was very fortunate to have a mom that was prepared to lead me to a saving understanding with Jesus.

Keep in mind that I was 11. I just knew that Jesus was in my heart. As I matured in my Christianity, I was able to understand many things that would not have been possible with out the Holy Spirit's interpretation.

You see, even today I can honestly say that the only difference in me and a person that has not accepted Jesus is that I realy have a before and an after.

I was in need of eternal help. I asked for help. I found a Saviour that was ready, willing, and able to give me that help. In "churchy" terms, I was faced with my sinfulness, repented, and filled with the Holy Spirit because Jesus willing sacrificed his body on Calvary because there was no human way for me to repair the damage tht was in my life.

What did I get in return? I now serve a risen saviour. Jesus is alive in my heart because one time He stood at my hearts door and knocked. I opened the door and a great transformation happened in my life.

Pretty simplified explaination, but I can honestly say that it happened and I can give testimony to this when called upon.

We were created by God. We broke the relationship. God gave an avenue to repair the damaged relationship. I surrendered to His will. I am saved.