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Discussion Starter #1
A little background here. I live in Alaska and do a lot of wilderness trips in a Piper Super Cub (airplane) cashing fish, game and fun.  So I will get to see my share of bears and Moose I suppose.I also just love the 1911 style autos.  Ssooo ... a Springfield 1911A1 V-16 Longslide in .45ACP/.45Super is going to arrive on Monday.  I am going to also get in the next few weeks the .22LR conversion slide and a regular lenght 5" slide in .45 Super for it.  I know it is no .44 Mag or Hopped up .45 Colt, but the .45 Super cartridge delivers a Hornady 230gr XTP FP at 1200fps. A 5" Government model gun that is smaller and lighter then my wifes 3" S&W 629 .44Mag is going to be nice to carry.  So the question is, how does the Beartooth .45 ACP bullet do at .45 Super velocities?  Is it as hard as the other bullets in the line(21 brinnel)?  Is going to exceed jacketed bullet velocities?  How will it compare to the Hornadies in penetration (read bear or moose).  The game is stacking up to the Hornady XTP HP and XTP FP bullets down in the lower 48 I have seen on the web.  Hogs are pretty tough and they are dropping to the jacketed bullets.  Well I would appreciate your thoughts on my new toy and its use on game from squirrels to bears here in the north land. Thanks
 

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Hi, Cub:
  FWIW, I fired a Beartooth 225 FNB and a Hornady 230 gr. HP/XTP into the same bundle of wetpack at about 850 fps. The Beartooth was just polished up a bit and you can still see all the mould marks.  The HP/XTP weighed 190 gr. and expanded to about .650". I can't find my notes, but the Beartooth penetrated about 3X the Hornady.

Bye
Jack
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Personally I'd load a 255gr. SWC, if it would feed reliably.  I have loaded some up in my .45 ACP Ruger P90 to about 900 fps.  Haven't had a chance to collect any game with them yet.

At the velocities you'll get... say 1100-1200 fps, most any commercially cast bullet should do.  This is not a whole lot of stress on the bullet, to be right honest about it.  Certainly not compared to a Casul, etc.

Give one bullet a thump with a hammer and see if it shatters.  If not, you should be fine.  If so, look for something softer.

Aim carefully... neither moose nor bear are much impressed with any handgun round.  Good luck.
 

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I think it was in the late '80s I read a column in Guns and Ammo magazine regarding the .45 ACP and bears. The question was wether or not the .45 would stop a charging bear and the answer was if the .45 held 7 shots then shoot 6 times and save the last round for yourself because by the time this bear gets to you he's gonna be really upset! Seems like I when I was a gunsmith the topic of how much gun is enough came up at least twice a week. There's no easy answer. There's a big difference between killing an animal under ideal conditions and stopping one cold when everything has gone wrong and the only thing between you and imminent death is the hole in the end of your barrel. I'm a little overcautious and like to prepare for the worst. You see, I deal with alligators and crocodiles on a daily basis so I know how quick a normally routine encounter can turn south. And when have to use a gun to defend ourselves from a bear attack then we're at the end of our rope. Yelling and arm waving didn't work, there's no place to go and our only choice is to shoot. You don't just shoot a charging bear, you have to break it down. A .45 ACP (super or not) just does not have the bullet weight or momentum to save your hide in that situation. Not until we get up into the .475 or .500 calibers do handguns have the same Taylor KO values of some of our popular bear rifles. The .454 Casull and hot-rodded .45 Colt are pretty good. I read a story once about bear attacks in Montana. A study of self defense against bears revealed that no one who had tried to defend themself with a handgun had survived, though sometimes the bear died to. This was in the early '80s so I doubt any .454s were used. Certainly no Linebaughs as they weren't around yet. Of course we all don't want to pack a .460 Weatherby for a hiking or fishing trip. But if I have to carry a handgun for bear defense it'll be a .454 (cause I don't own a .475 or .500) and it'll definitely be a revolver. My Super Redhawk is pretty reliable and I'm not well trained in the art of clearing a stove pipe jam while a 1200 pound bruin is bearing down on my tender 175 pound body!
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Dave - I don't think ANY handgun cartridge is going to "breakdown" a bear very well.  As for the BIG cartridges you speak of... BIG GUNs are reguired to shoot them.  Also they kick ALOT.  Have you ever tried rapid fire with one of the three into say 6 different grapefruit?  I think it would be difficult to painful for the shooter at best.  As far as sheer power goes the Alaska DFG has done plenty of penetration testing on big bear heads. It only takes a .38 to penetrate and destroy the brain ( the grapefruit targets I mentioned).  That doesn't mean anyone up here carries one!!  <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->   I just want to know how Marshalls bullet will penetrate and deform at 1200 fps or so.  Just in case I miss ther grapefruit!  NEVER ! smile.  I know the reliablity of the revolver sure is nice in that case but people have been winning wars for 90 years with the 1911.  That can be pretty tough on a pistol.  I went with the V-16 LS from Springfield for its versatility. I can shoot .22lr at rabbits, grouse etc, switch to the 5" .45 Super for fishing then to the 6" .45 Super for deer hunting and target work. I like that. Plus I just love the 1911 and am prety good with it. Like I said above, I know it's no .44 Mag on steriods.  But it is kicking pretty good.   And hey maybe I'll get lucky, my neighbors fishing guide killed a charging griz on Kodiak  years ago with a regular .45 ACP.  One shot to the brain.  I guess he ate a lot of grapefruit or something. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
 

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Cub
Don't get me wrong. I'm a 1911 fan as well. I own a Combat Commander enhanced .45 and a Mustang .380 and love them both. And I know what you're saying when you talk about the .45 serving our soldiers for 90-plus years. I'm sure my grandpa (a WWII veteran) gnashed his teeth from above when the US dropped the 1911 for the Beretta in '85. I just think there's better bear madicine out there. That .45 super is pretty hot though. Too bad my .45 isn't the full 5 inch barrel.
Dave
 

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'CUB,

Be judicious with .45 Super use in your 1911. That's a whole heap more pressure than the gun was designed around. I well remember all the 10mm 1911's from my days as a serious IPSC competitor either getting rebuilt for the Xth time or getting pawned off on some unsuspecting yahoo. The same will hold true of this latest combination. The old .451 Detonics conversion from the early '80s had the same problem.
 

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FA18CUB, you may want to go to 'www.garrettcartridges.com' and read both 'Q & A' and 'Reviews'.  There's some good info there.... some from people who 'been there... done that'.

God bless,
 
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