[slk]

Does anyone have a recipe for a 500 gr bullet for 45/70 using smokeless powder??

Thanks
Steve

 

[wildhobbybobby]

What pressure level are you asking about? Is it for an older rifle or a modern one? There are 3 basic load "groups" for .45/70's based on action strength. Also it would be good to know what kind of 500 gr. bullet you plan to use.

 

[slk]

Ok this is a new replica Uberti sharps Down Under with a 34" barrel. I bought a bullet mold from Lyman that makes the big round nose bullet in 500gr.

 

[wildhobbybobby]

For best results in your Sharps replica, I would try either 22.0 grains of Alliant 2400 or 36 to 38 grains of IMR 3031 with your 500 grain cast bullet. If you keep the velocity to about 1100 to 1200 fps., you will essentially duplicate blackpowder load performance without the smoke cloud and cleaning requiments associated with BP.

Recoil will be noticeable, but tolerable, with the those loads and your rifle's steel buttplate. Accuracy will probably be best at about that velocity level also. Heavier loads will beat you up and turn your shoulder purple...ask me how I know!

Your rifle can handle heavier loads, but should not be used with the extremely heavy "Group 3" loads that are listed in some sources. Although it has a very strong receiver and breechblock, the firing pin design is not considered suitable for extremely heavy loads.

I had a Pedersoli Sharps and a Shilo Sharps at different times and used the 22.0/2400 load with good results in both, but be careful to inspect your charged cases in good lighting conditions before seating bullets to make sure you don't inadvertently double-charge a case.

 

[flashhole]

You might look at using Reloader #7. I use it for my 500 grain bullet loads in my Guide Gun. They are not pleasant to shoot.

 

[slk]

Do you prefer the Allient 2400 over the IMR 3031? I am going to cast my bullets with the Lyman 457125 Round Nose mold. Supose to be some where around 500gr bullet. I still need to get a lube sizer for the bullet.

I did slug my gun and it does have .458 grove diameter. I will size them at .459. The guy here at the reloading shop said that the 457125 mold makes a bullet that does not need a gas check. I hope that is true as I don't want to have to bother with them

My Uberti barrel actually was made by Perdosoli and most likely the other parts as well. Kind of funny. It says Uberti and Stoger on the top of the barrel and Perdosoli on the bottom. I called Uberti and they admitted thet Davide Perdosoli does make their barrels.

Thank you for all of the info so far. I greatly appreciate it.

Steve

 

[45_70Sharps]

I like 3031 a lot for the 444 and smokeless 45-70 loads.
I don't like to use the powders that don't fill the case well for one thing and for another I've had good luck with 3031.

Enjoy! I think that rifle will handle loads with no problem that are pushing that lead well beyond your accurate load level. I would start with black powder load levels also. You can go up and down from there slowly and find what works well for you.

 

[slk]

Are you suggesting I use BP for my loads in the beggining or load the equivelent of what the PB load was. How do you find out what the velosity was on the BP loads of the day. I have heard that around 1200 to 1400 was the norm. Seams slow but it is pushing a huge bullet.

It there a conversion chart out there some where that will give you the info I am looking for. I did see a reloading pamphlet at Cabelas that has just the loading info for the 45/70. Wonder if that is a worthwhile thing to have.

Steve

 

[Lynn]

I load 25 grains of 5744 under the 500 grainers seated to the lands to duplicate the black powder load. This load gets 1201 fps average with a 26 fps max spread out of my gun (H&R BC) and is vary accurate.

 

[wildhobbybobby]

All of the powders listed will work. My recommendation of 2400 is based on using that load with the same bullet you are talking about, since about 1968. I like it because it is accurate and clean burning. You will often find unburned powder grains left after shooting loads with slower powders such as 3031. Those are the only two powders I have used in such loads, other than real blackpowder.

An original .45/70/500 blackpowder load would produce about 1150 fps., give or take. The smokeless loads that have been recommended so far will do about the same, so they are referred to as BP duplicate loads. Note that they duplicate the velocity of BP loads, but not necessarily the pressure of such loads...however, they will be safe in your Sharps.

Lyman #457125 does not use a gas check. It is a plain based bullet, and your plan to size them .459 sounds perfect.

 

[unclenick]

SLK,

That last question belonged in the bullet casting forum. I moved it into a new thread here: http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=64251


Al_Sway,

I moved your response there, too.

 

[45_70Sharps]

Are you suggesting I use BP for my loads in the beggining or load the equivelent of what the PB load was. How do you find out what the velosity was on the BP loads of the day. I have heard that around 1200 to 1400 was the norm. Seams slow but it is pushing a huge bullet.

It there a conversion chart out there some where that will give you the info I am looking for. I did see a reloading pamphlet at Cabelas that has just the loading info for the 45/70. Wonder if that is a worthwhile thing to have.

Steve

No, sorry for not being clear. Black powder is fun and worth messing with but I was just talking about black powder velocity. You can look on the load charts for loads that are safe for a trapdoor and start with those.
Go to to one of the powder manufacturers web sites and a lot of them have loading charts.

 

[slk]

I called Allient and they suggested 30gr of Reloader7 to duplicate the BP loads for the big 500gr bullet.

They told me that they don't like to see as much space in the cartrige as you would have with the 2400 powder. He said he knows it will work but they don't like the space. They also suggested that I use magnum primers with the reloader 7, which I do not have . I have cases of large rifle primers. He said just make sure the bullet left the gun before shooting another, just in case you don't get good ignition with regular large rifle primers.

Any input on this???

Steve

 

[45_70Sharps]

That's exactly what I was talking about and one of the reasons I like the 3031.
With a partial case you have two possible problems.
First your powder column isn't consistent. You may have all the powder to the back of the case and get normal ignition or the powder may be laying the length of the case or a little forward and the primer may ignite the charge the full length of the case resulting is different burn rates. This will cause different pressure and accuracy will be out the window.
Second, if the case is in the area of half full or less you could double charge a case without knowing it. Probably not going to happen but it won't for sure if you keep the case pretty full.
I like to find a powder that fills the case pretty well. You will get more consistent results with a full or slightly compressed charge.

 

[slk]

Ok I am getting ready to load these 500gr lead bullets. Do I want a tapered crimp or a rolled crimp. This is going to be shot in a sharps single shot

 

[flashhole]

Either will do but you want to be mindful of your technique. Your lead bullets will have a larger diameter than the jacketed bullet and it will be a very snug fit in your case when seated. They will seat rather deep and the case neck area will still have a flare. Whether you taper crimp or roll crimp you need to reduce the case neck area where it was flared for bullet seating. I roll crimp my lead bullets when I use them and I use the crimp feature built into the seat die, not the Factory Crimp Die method, because it handily eliminates the flare. I taper crimp jacketed bullets, the taper crimp die deals nicely with the neck flare and makes a very uniform and controlled crimp. I think taper crimping is easier than roll crimping. Just be aware that once those big long bullets are crimped into the case it's very difficult to pull them so make sure your load is exactly correct before completing a bunch of them.

 

[slk]

Yea I forgot about the flare I put on the shell to make the bullet go in easier. I guess I should crimp to eliminate the flare. Makes sence to me.

Thanks
Steve

 

[slk]

I just picked up a little booklet on reloading the 45/70. Under the Lyman bullets made in the 457125 mold 500gr it says they used 1/2 gr polyester fiber wad, 5/8" square X 1/4" thick over the powder.

I am starting out with 30 gr of reloader 7

Anyone here ever use the polyester fiber they are talking about and are you supose to use it

Steve

 

[flashhole]

Did they give you a load range for using Reloader #7? 30 grains seems a bit on the light side. I have no experience with the fill but I would not think it wise to stuff a square patch down a round hole.

 

[d garfield]

loading 45-70

If you can afford a 45-70 sharps you must be able to buy a Lyman reloading manual.