Shooters Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've got a brand-new 94 Big Bore 375 top eject with a loading gate that will not depress once the first round is loaded into the magazine tube. It appears that the gate is prevented from movement by the rim of the loaded round. I called Winchester, and they told me that probably the wrong sized gate was used in assembly, and that it may be too long. I was not even aware that there were different sized gates used in the 94 in the first place, and I am even more suprised that if this is the case, how it could have made it through the so-called "factory quality control" process without being noticed. I assume that rifles are at least test fired before being shipped? In any event, I'm hoping that the problem is not really a wrong part issue, and that someone on this forum can give me a better answer than the Winchester spokesgirl.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts
I am not any help on this but I have heard of this one other time. I have 2 Win lever actions and checked the function of them after reading the posts, they work correctly. By watching the opening of the gate when loading I can see where it is a tight fit. Perhaps a good gunsmith can shorten the gate rather than waiting for Winchester. I am with you, why did it make it past the QA people ? I am in a Japanese auto factory every day and each of the thousands of parts are inspected repeatedly during the process. A levergun isn't that complicated and should be right before it leaves.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Bigfoot. I also did a side-by-side test with my other 94 Big Bore, and couldn't determine, visually at least, any difference in the loading gates or positioning of the parts in the respective receivers. I tend to think that maybe something like the magazine tube alignment is the issue, rather than the loading gate. In any event, since this could be a mere 1/64" problem somewhere, I can't be sure by "eyeballing". BTW, the guns feeds and ejects properly. However, the two-shot limitation (one in the chamber and one in the magazine) is certainly not an acceptable alternative. Winchester said that I could send the rifle to one of their "Repair Centers", but that because of the age of the gun, despite the fact that it is NIB with tags and all, it probably wouldn't be covered under warranty. YGBSM!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
440 Posts
Nikral,

This may sound like a dumb answer to your question, but here goes. Could it be that it is just new? I have a BB94 in 356(30/30 rim) and I had to apply quite a bit of pressure initially to depress the loading gate for the 2nd round in the tube. I have always found this process a bit difficult in the Winchester's I've owned. After a while, the problem seemed to go away on the BB. Just a thought, but you may have already determined that the loading gate will not budge under any amount of pressure. If that is the problem, then your sending it out for repair line of thought would be correct. Take Care and good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
This is a common issue with Winchester's with a fairly stiff magazine spring. Actually the correct way to load the magazine of a Winchester is to not to push the first round all the way into the tube by hand. Push it almost in, then push it in with the following cartridge, repeat this with the next round and the next until you are full. This may seem a little clumsy at first but this is the recommended method.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks! You may be right. I decided to remove the magazine plug, and allow about 10" of the spring to extend out of the end of the tube. I then held the spring in-place with a short round pin. With some pressure off, I was finally able to depress the loading gate past the cartridge rim. I'm still in the process of wearing-in the loading gate by repeatedly pushing it down and over an empty case that I've loaded in the magazine. It seems to be working. I guess that the underside bevel on the loading gate was milled/stamped improperly, and that a burr of metal was preventing the part from slipping over the cartridge rim. In any event, I'm now wondering if I can cut a few inches off the magazine spring, with a trial-and-error method, to permanently reduce some of the pressure on the spring while still ensuring reliable feeding? As it is now, I can get only three rounds in the magazine before it again becomes extremely difficult to over-come the cartridge rim of the last loaded round. Has anyone else fooled-around with reducing the magazine spring length in a Model 94 BB in order to reduce the pressure required to load a full magazine?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Sorry Win 71 for the out-of-sequence post. You are absolutely correct. That method of loading does work. I've got two other Model 94's that I've never had to do that with, but they are older, well-used guns. My new Model 1886 and Model 71 Brownings work fine, as well, without having to use the method you described. Since the Brownings are made like a Rolex, that doesn't surprise me at all. I guess I now know why Custer lost...nobody could reload "on the fly" LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
827 Posts
I think before shortening the spring, I would fully load the magazine and leave it that way for a week or so. According to Wolfe Spring's website, springs take an initial set. If you shorten the spring first, it may end up with insufficient strength.
Andy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Nikral,

When I got my Win 94 BB .375 it was unfired and I had the same problem you did. I used the loading method that Win 71 described and that worked. Load it up all the way and let it sit for a while, the spring needs to be "broken in" so to speak. Mine loads fine now after I let the spring take a set.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1 Posts
mod94 357 mag

Nikral said:
I've got a brand-new 94 Big Bore 375 top eject with a loading gate that will not depress once the first round is loaded into the magazine tube. It appears that the gate is prevented from movement by the rim of the loaded round. I called Winchester, and they told me that probably the wrong sized gate was used in assembly, and that it may be too long. I was not even aware that there were different sized gates used in the 94 in the first place, and I am even more suprised that if this is the case, how it could have made it through the so-called "factory quality control" process without being noticed. I assume that rifles are at least test fired before being shipped? In any event, I'm hoping that the problem is not really a wrong part issue, and that someone on this forum can give me a better answer than the Winchester spokesgirl.
I also just bought a mod. 94 in 357 Mag. I have shot it about 10 times the first timeout and I have the same problem I sent mine back to Windchester (big error) they have had about six weeks and no word yet if or when they will return it.
I will let know what happens if anything.
ply1950
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
471 Posts
When I first had my Marlin 450 guidegun, the loading gate was causing the lever to hangup when ejecting a case,this was after maybe twenty full house loads, come to find out the screw that holds the gate in place got loose from recoil, good old loctite did the trick. If I were you I would send it back to winchester let then eat it, I hate when corps rush to get things on the market fast without a good R&D first, to get the bugs out. Reminds me of Bill Gates LOL. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
213 Posts
Rmouleart said:
If I were you I would send it back to winchester let then eat it, I hate when corps rush to get things on the market fast without a good R&D first, to get the bugs out.
I don't know how well that'd work. Even though Nikral said "brand-new," the rifle is likely around 25 years old, as they only made them from 1978-1983. That's back when Winchester was still Winchester, not U.S. Repeating Arms Co.

The rifle is just new. Mine did the same thing until I had shot it a bit. The full magazine sitting for a few days is a good recommendation.

RSY
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
738 Posts
Nikral,

Since this is a "Winchester" made 94 rather than a USRAC, there is no warrenty left. So I don't suggest sending it back to USRAC.

The suggestions to load a cartridge and leave the rim between the loading gate and the frame, and then insert the next round, is the same instructions that were given in the original owners manuals.
That is the best way to cure your problem.
If you dindn't get an owners manual with the gun, you need to get one before you do anything with it.

Cutting springs is not a good idea. When you do that you reduce the ability of the spring to push the next round into the action quickly and in a positive manner. If it's too slow, like when there is little tension on the last couple rounds, it can cause jams if the action is cycled quickly.

Also on the back side of the loading gate is a tapered area. This area is supposed to slide over the rim as you push the gate open. If this area is rough it will not slide over the rim. Open the action and with the carrier in the down position look at the inside of the of the loading gate. If there are rough machine marks or burrs there will be brass tracks on it. Gently polishing this area will help.

Basically, don't give in to the cut and chop the springs, or send it back to the factory, mind set. It's a new gun, learn the proper way to use it and give it time to break in.

Joe
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
377 Posts
This is straight from my owners manual. "press the spring cover inward with the tip of the first cartridge until all but the rim has entered the loading port. Then insert the next cartridge in the same manner, pushing the preceding cartridge into the magazine. Repeat this procedure with each cartridge, but push the last cartridge past the end of the spring cover, allowing the cover to snap closed." Being primarily a Marlin owner, this is what I had to do to get the thing loaded. Suprisingly, I found this after wondering what was wrong as well. Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
They just might fix the problem under the warranty. Last year I got a NIB 307 with a cracked stock. My local gunsmith contacted the folks at USRAC and they said they would replace the stock if it was a defect due to manufacturing. They had it for almost 8 weeks but returned it with a new stock and no charge. Its nice to see a company that will stand behind its products.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
on both my lever guns (one of which is a top-eject BigBore94) I have always inserted the cartride only 3/4's into the magazine and then used the next cartridge to push the previous one fully into the magazine. I had the same problem as Nikral mentioned and "solved" it loading as noted above.

J Miller says it correctly that the tapered area on the backside of the loading gate is the root cause of the problem. Re-angling and/or polishing to super-smoothness will help.

From an engineering perspective this is matter of geometry & angle-of-contact and force application & resolution between loading gate and cartridge rim.
Too shallow an angle and the applied force doesn't resolve into a forward-directed force that easily moves the cartridge forward into the magazine and allows the loading gate to move down fully for inserting a new cartridge.
Too steep an angle and there will also be a problem with force resolution which doesn't allow the loading gate to move fully down.
Thus there is an optimum angle to make this work, and even then operation may not be buttery smooth. What that angle is I don't know, though 45 degrees is a reasonable value to start the analysis.

I believe the easiest "solution" is to not fully insert a cartridge, but to push that cartridge in with another one (as noted in Dr A's post).
The other task to consider is to remove the loading gate and put a super-smooth polish on those underside surface(s) which contact the cartridge rim during push-down of the loading gate. Messing around with the actual angle of contact isn't necessarily a good idea without understanding how the forces of contact are resolving themselves for the intended need and operation. I myself would hope/expect that Winchester's engineers figured all this out long ago and have provided the most reasonable solution.

Cheers,

Carl
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top