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Discussion Starter #1
Hello Marshall (and others),

I haven't given up on loading your bullets in my Taylor, but it's been a "on and off again" project.

My current problem is with C.O.L.  When I load the 335gr bullets to 3.350" (the normal maximum for functioning through this rifles magazine) it seems that they really jam into the throating.  I can barely close the bolt on them.  In fact, the last one I loaded, was so hard to chamber, I decided I better not shoot it.  I had to knock my bolt handle (lightly) on the shooting bench to get it free.  The bullet stuck in the chamber, and I got back the brass and powder. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

I know this is not your fault!  It's mine.  

Anyhow, I've decided I need to seat these bullets deeper (duh.)  <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->

So, I seated them till the very last (first?) lube groove is now inside the case neck.  The C.O.L. is now about 2.970".

They feed much better, with just a bit of resistance as the bolt handle is lowered.

My question is, do you think this is too deep to seat these bullets?  I can tell that the 70.0gr load of H4985 (a mild published load for 400gr jacketed bullets) is being slightly compressed.

While I was trying to avoid too much pressure due to jamming the bullet.  Now I'm worried about compressed loads (even if mild.)

BTW,  I did shoot two of these rounds over the chrono before this happened, the first read around 2500fps, and the second one didn't record (cheap chronograph.)  So I not really sure what velocity it's getting.  Accuracy wasn't checked either.

Thanks for your time everyone!  This is really a great forum!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Well,

I went ahead and shot the loads, and I've still got all nine fingers and one eye! <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

The load I was most concerned about (70.0gr H4895) shot just fine.  Velocities were....

2601
2603
2593
2573

There were more shots, but the chrony gave some funky readings, which I ignored.

Accuracy could be measured with a 1 foot ruler, which is actually an improvement for my cast loads!

Guess I should of been seating these bullets deeper all along.

Thanks! (to me, I guess?)
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Brian, don't feel too bad about the group size, I just got back from the range where one memorable string of 6 shots left exactly 1 hole in the paper - at 75 yards.

It does happen!
 

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Thanks Mike!  I think? <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

Do you mean all your bullets made  one large hole?  Or, that only one round hit the target?

I'm starting to wonder if I'm just plain driving these things too fast?  Perhaps I should back them down to around 2200fps?  

After all, this is suppose to be cheap practice ammo.  Not that this load wouldn't kill most animals, even in Africa!  But you can't beat the price, compared to even the cheapest jacketed .416 bullets (Hornady RN's.)
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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I got only one slightly oblong hole... hey, now that you mention it, maybe ALL of the bullets tipped and went through the paper in the same spot!

I can't offer much help with cast bullets in rifles.  From very limited experience, it seems that they're more sensitive to velocity changes than jacketed.

Your 'practice' load sounds like a real thumper!
 

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Brian,

Just a few questions.   Are you using an "M" type neck expander die before seating the cast bullets in your .416 Taylor?  If not, you should, and they are available from RCBS as a stock item... Lyman has gotten a stiff neck lately and won't do any custom work anymore.

Next, when seating to the depth you reported, is the base of the bullet contained within the neck of the case?  If not, then you'll get poor results to say the least.  Hence perhaps the large groups.  If you must seat the bullets to a depth that puts the bullet base below the neck, and into the powder capacity of the case, it's amazing what a filler like Grex or corn meal will do to tighten those groups.

Also, you might be pushing those bullets just a tad bit fast.  Consider using a slightly compressed charge of H4350 for great uniformity and toning down the velocity just a touch.  It might work wonders for you.

These are just a few ideas that come to mind at this insane hour of the morning.... perhaps I'll have a brainstorm after a recharge from some sleep, and I'll share more later!

God Bless,

Marshall
 

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Marshall,

I have been looking around for some info on this and ran across this old thread and need to pick someones brain for info on this number.

got a commercial mauser in 416 Taylor at a gun show this weekend and need to find out what kind of brass to use for it. 458 WM and go down or 338 and go up?

Also, I am guessing that standard magnum powders aren't the answer here and instead need to go with the more medium burning powders...any suggestions?

Lastly, I will be ordering probably 100 each of the two offerings you have...you don't happen to have a starting load for them? :)

D
 

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Thanks for the info NFG, starting to wonder if anyone at all still works with this number. :)



Have you tried any of Marshalls cast bullets in your Savage?


D
 

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Better to neck down with the 458 than go up ..
I had I think the sixth one ever built many years ago , stolen , working on another as we speak ..
Have no cast load data at my fingertips , but IMR 4320 was the trick with 400 grain jacketed bullets ..
PM me if you want it , I will forward it to you ..
Think I have some cast data buried somewhere ..
 

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hey, you kept this one from going away! :)


I WAS thinking about a rebarrel to a 338 WM or something similar, but I will hang onto it for now...


As it would be a 100-150 yard shooting experience at the most, what brand of scope do you use?

I was looking at something along the lines of a 1.5x5 or similar power scope...

D
 

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I haven't used cast bullets in the cartridge, but like NFG, I've settled on RL-15 with the Speer 350 gr Mag Tip, but 73.5 gr of the powder, and CCI 250 primer. This gets me around 2200-2400 fps (dang cheap Chrono doesn't let me get better numbers than that range) in a '98 Mauser w/24" barrel.

Though I haven't spent much time on this, the 400 gr Hornady RN seems encouraging, with the same powder but 72.5 gr and same primer, and oddly, the Chrono is reading about the same velocities, but about 100 fps less on the top end. Quite a bit more thump on my end with this.

Scope? A Burris Signature posi-lok 1.5-6x. A fine scope in my opinion.
 

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I can only imagine...

I was looking at either a Leupy or a Nikon UCC for my first try at this...

and as far as the 350 and 400 gr. at approx 2200 fps I am sure that it would waylay anything...considering how much I can do with a 400 gr. 45-70 with less SD at 1600 fps...yeah...as I said...I think I got a keeper... :)

Thanks also for the Ken Waters book tip...somthing else I have to go get now... :rolleyes:


D
 

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WELL...

Got impatient...grabbed some 338 WM brass from the local supply (no 458 in stock...for some reason not too popular around here in SE Texas...).

Found a box of Hornady 400 gr. RN's and a box of 350 Speer Mag Tips.

From some reading I have done...I decided to try a diffrent tact...went with the slowest powder I could find data for...found it from the old Bob Hagel article, where he used some IMR 4350 and stated that he couldn't get enough in the case to make max pressure, but still gave good accuracy at 100 yards.

Took his data and kicked it down the normal 10% and went with 72 gr. of 4350 behind both bullets to see what they would do...also to act as a "forming load" as well.

The mag tips gave me just less than 2" at 100 with a 5 shot string...the 400's were about 4" so I will have to see about another powder for them...burnt relatively clean...left no more residue than what you would normally find from a factory loading, I would assume. I am guessing from the recoil (didn't have my chrony out...TOO WINDY!) I was probably producing about 2100 fps mebbe with those loads...make a good Hogzilla harvester! :)

The "T" is now firmly in my battery of rifles and won't be going anywhere anytime soon. :D

Thanks for all the help with this guys...I would really like to keep this thread going in case someone else finds this great number! Now I just need to get some extra cash and get some of Marshall's CBs...

D
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Try a case full of Varget. I am using the starting loads for Varget with 400gr. Speers in my .458 - think it is about 74gr. or so. It is a very low pressure load in the .458 Win and I don't expect you'd have any problems in the .416.

Varget seems to tolerate low pressure loads very well.
 

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I have Varget, AA2520 and BLC2 to all play with...I am thinking a recoil pad might be in order for the future. :)



On another note, who all has used Hornady's basic belted mag brass?


D
 

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I've used both 458 WM and 338 WM brass in mine, and couldn't tell the difference in any way. Another route you can try is getting A-Square 416 Taylor brass through Midway. I was able to get two 20-rd boxes of it, and it's good stuff, although if I recall, something around $40/20 rds (they come in a durable plastic cartridge case). I did have to ream out the flashhole as it was pulling my decapping pin out.

Getting any A-Square stuff seems an iffy venture. Midway catalogs 6.5-06 brass from A-Square, and I placed an order, which was placed on backorder, but they eventually cancelled the whole order. But if Midway has any in stock, you may be in luck.
 

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NFG,

Yeah...looked around quite a bit for data using 4350...the website was pretty informative, as well as the accurate reloading's forum...but it seems that the amount of data collected just here in this thread is getting pretty substantial.

I think my next set of loads WILL be with a bit of BLC2....I actually ran out of RL-15 when I loaded up a batch of 308 ammo to play with...with so many cartridges using RL-15 an 8 lb jug will have to be bought...especially with that hungry mag case. :p


Thanks again guys!

D
 

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NFG,
I did look at the website link, but only after the talkin'-to you gave us. ;) Some good info there; seems the RL-15 is a good choice based on the data.

I've only had one experience with Qual Cart, and it was a bad one - 6.5-06 brass through Midway. That's why I tried to get it from A-Square. The necks were too thick, and the brass was too soft. Between the two, I couldn't even get it past the expander button in the die without crushing the case. Probably just a fluke in their quality, and no harm done since I returned it and got my $$ back and am using 25-06 brass as before.
 

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If you haven't found the Ken Water's Pet Loads Data for the Taylor, give me an email and Ill see about sending it to you. Neat article, too bad he didnt do one on the .416 Rigby.
 
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