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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi
maybe someone can explain how 30grns of h110 goes 1500fps over 300jacketed horndy,while nex load list 31.5 grn h110 at 1780 and high pres
then look at 310grn cast over 35grns of h110 for 1700fps all with COL very close less then.04
is a hard cast bullet that much short that you need 4 more grns for same fps.I just load some hornday 300XTP over 30-30.5grns of H110 was ready to start loading 300grn hardcasts figured I would start with 30grns of H110 should be around 1500fps or will this be to low of a charge.What amount would be need to get 1650-1725fps
maybe someone could clear this up for me
thanks  Joe
 

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HI JOE, THE 30GR LOAD OF H110 AND 300GR XTP IS ABOUT NORMAL FOR A 7 1/2" BARREL REVOLVER TO GIVE 1500 FPS, AS TO THE 31.5 GR LOAD THAT IS BIG BORES I BELIEVE AND HE IS SHOOTIN A 10" FA WHICH ALLOWS A COMPLETE BURN OF POWDER MORE SO THAN THE 7 1/2". AS TO THE 35GR AND 310GR HARDCAST THAT CHRIS USES IS THE BT 300GR WLNGC AND THIS NOSE PROFILE PUTS ALOT MORE BULLET OUT OF THE CASE ALLOWING FOR MORE POWDER WHILE KEEPING PRESSURE EQUALIZED COMPARED TO A BULLET THAT LETS SAY SEATS .125" DEEPER USING A 3GR DECREASE IN POWDER. AND TO HELP YOUR QUESTION ON THE SPEEDS BETWEEN 30GR AND 31.5GR GIVEN ANY PARTICULAR FIREARM WHEN YOU GET H110/W296 INTO THERE WORKING ZONE A SMALL INCREASE IN CHARGE WILL RESULT IN A JUMP IN VELOCITY TO, THATS WHY A CHRONOGRAPH IS A MUST WHEN WORKING UP LOADS WITH THESE POWDERS, IT WILL HELP YOU JUDGE PRESSURE. LIKE THE OLD SAYING, YOU CANT GET ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER. AND TO YOUR OTHER QUESTION ON HARDCAST VS JACKETED YES GIVEN EQUAL WEIGHT AND DESIGN THE LEAD BULLET WILL USUALLY EXCEED THE JACKETED BULLET IN VELOCITY BY 75-100 FPS DO TO LESS FRICTION AND SEAL. WITH THE SAME POWDER CHARGE OR SOMETIMES A 1 TO 1.5 GR INCREASE IN POWDER TO MAKE THE SAME VELOCITY DUE TO THE LEAD BULLET NOT MAKING THE SAME PRESSURE AS THE JACKETED BULLET. FOR INSTANCE WHEN USING ONLY LBT DESIGNS YOU CAN PUSH A 45 CAL. 452/325GR LFN AT THE SAME SPEED AS A 300GR JFP WITH SAME POWDER CHARGE BUT PUSHING A 25GR HEAVIER BULLET. BUT AS ALWAYS NEVER TAKE FOR GRANTED THAT THE LEAD BULLET IS LESS PRESSURE. THERE ARE MANY THINGS THAT COME INTO PLAY WHEN WE TALK PRESSURE IN HANDGUN CARTRIDGES. I HOPE YOU ARE NOT CONFUSED FROM TRYIN TO FIGURE OUT WHAT I AM GETTIN AT. THIS IS THE BEST I CAN WORD IT FOR NOW, MAYBE MARSHALL OR ONE OF THE OTHER BOYS CAN PUT THERE THOUGHTS ON THE SUBJECT AS WELL. HAVE A NICE DAY.      JIM L.
 

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Another thing to consider, is the FA revolver only has a .001" cyl to barrel gap. If your factory revolver is falling in the .003-.006" gap range, you may not chrony your desired load with a safe pressure. That gap range may result in 150fps loss of velocity. The LBT style bullets are shorter compared to jacketed of same weight and the weight is in the nose area giving more powder space. Too, the dual crimp groove bullets let you load to a longer COL for the SBH. It would really help to know what you are loading for. Someone may have experience on the boards with the combination.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
jim
good post,
seems like .454 wont show pres signs until its way over
right.is this because of the h110/ww296 powder burn curve,or just something with case design and all the over built guns their chambered in.
second question I got some 300gr hardcast would like to load them to about 1650fps like factory 300 grn loads are,what charge of h110 i was thinking around 32grns
was going to start at 30.5 and work up every 10shells
the bullets are made but rogers better bullets.

anyway thanks for the info
 

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SuperX,

What Jim Lambert and Ruger No.3 have said is absolutely right!  The lower friction coefficient of a good hard cast bullet properly lubed and gas checked is much lower than that of it's jacketed counterpart, thus giving either higher velocity at equal pressures  or equal velocity at lower pressures.  Also, in the LBT designs, the bullet compromises less case capacity, thus leaving a larger combustion chamber, hence more fuel is needed to equal the pressures generated by a bullet leaving less case capacity.  

You mention the bullets you have on hand, but I don't know anything about the hardness, the bullet design, lube quality or whether they are gas-checked or plain based designs.   Be careful when using cast bullets that you use only those of a BHN 19+ in your ultra high pressures generated by the .454 Casull, as you can have softer cast bullets obturate badly in the forcing cone, thus spiking pressures and causing serious problems, inluding, but not limited to cracked forcing cones in the .454 Casull revolvers, regardless of their maker.

I've written an article you might find useful in your quest for a load in your .454 Casull, as it is directed to that end.


Do be careful, don't assume anything in load development.   Take each step, one at a time.   And, also, "a cast bullet"  isn't necessarily the same as any other "cast bullet" !!! You'll find significant differences in performance, velocity and pressures which are dictated by such factors as bullet design, bullet harness and lube quality!  There are many here with lots of experience willing to help with this angle on your load development.

Keep us posted!

God Bless,

Marshall
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Marshall
bullets have BHN rating of 21,i talked to owner of company said they would be fine.I have read your article and found it very informative.I ask these questions here because there seems to be alot of knowledge and experence with large caliper handgun calibers.I am new to loading the .454 and seems that there is not a great amount of books printed with loads.
LOADSWAP has the most loads listed in 1 place i have found for this caliber.Any way I am going to start at 30grns of H110 and work up to 32grns this week and see how it goes,should be pretty conservative loads from what i can figure.I know 30grns of H110 over a 300grn XTP shoots good and is pretty mild.
Thanks for all the input guys
Joe
 
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