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Discussion Starter · #22 · (Edited)
I find it interesting that the .45 Colt and .44 WCF are still legal big game cartridges, while the 9mm and .45 Auto are not:p

I'm not surprised, .45 Colt punches a big hole in whatever it hits. Within it's range limitations, I'd take a .45 Colt over a .30-30 any day.
 

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Army GI said:
Do you use the standard .45 Colt, or high pressure .45 Colt for hunting?

Also, did you know that the .44 Magnum when fired from a rifle is almost;) the equivalent of the high velocity .44-40!

Also, how is CAS? I'm thinking about getting my dad into it (he's also a baby boomer in love with Westerns) but I haven't had alot of exposure to it.
I use standard pressure loads, but my Win. 92 could handle the high pressure stuff if I wanted to use it. I'll have to admit, I have yet to actually take any game with it, but I'm confident that the standard loads will work well as long as I take careful shots at reasonable ranges.

I like to use 300 gr. bullets in the .44 mag for hunting. These are pushed to about 1450 fps. It's accurate in my rifle and has plenty of punch!

As to CAS - it's a whole lot of fun! Where I go it's very laid back. Most people are just there for fun and don't care about winning. There are a few that are more competative, but they are don't detract from it in anyway. In fact, they're all great people and will help you out with pointers and advice.

You need 2 revolvers, a rifle, and a shotgun, but if you don't have all of them, someone will always be willing to lend you what you need. Where I go, some people dress in period clothes, others don't really. I would try to find a local place like that for your first shoot. That way you don't have to invest a lot into it before you decide if you like it (but I'm sure you will!)

I'm a bit younger than your dad (I'm 30), but still love Westerns. I would recommend CAS for anyone who loves the movies and loves to shoot.
 

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The "period" correct requirement refers to the caliber, not cartridge. If a .32 caliber was available before 1899 then it's legal to play the game with. That's why all the various .44 calibers can be used, with respect to keeping the velocity below around 1000fps and using lead bullets for safety. We're not trying to kill the steel targets, just hear 'em go clang!

Also, nobody gets run off for having elastic in your trousers or nylon thread stitching your leather together, but no tennis shoes or ball caps allowed.

Personally both my lever guns see double duty at a CAS match and hunting deer, hogs, whatever, I just don't use the same ammo in the field as I would shooting cowboy action. For me that part of the appeal that I can use my .44 or .45 to ring steel one day and put meat in the freezer the next.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
That's one of the reasons I got the Winchester with the 24" barrel. I know that shooting blackpowder or standard pressure loads wouldnt make much difference between say a 20" barrel and a 24". But I heard that that last four inches really make a difference once you start shooting +P loads.

Tell me sir, do you shoot +P 45 loads for hunting, or standard pressure?
 

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Army GI said:
That's one of the reasons I got the Winchester with the 24" barrel. I know that shooting blackpowder or standard pressure loads wouldnt make much difference between say a 20" barrel and a 24". But I heard that that last four inches really make a difference once you start shooting +P loads.

Tell me sir, do you shoot +P 45 loads for hunting, or standard pressure?
They are definately +P loads, not safe for use out of any of the Colt clone type revolvers, but rifles are a different matter. While I have loaded my own .45's for hunting, the best I've ever come across are from Buffalo Bore, and when it comes to hunting with my lever-gun in .45LC it's just a matter of choosing the bullet weight and type.
260gr. JHP, 1450fps; -killed hogs weighing 200#'s w/ these
325gr. LFN, 1325fps -put 1 of these through two hogs!
Heavy .45 Colt, items 3A, & 3C.
Another warning, this ammo is not for use with any of the toggle link type rifles such as the 1866/73 models. I think BB now makes a standard pressure .45LC, I'll have to check and make sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Yes, I've fired their standard pressure stuff. Its really nice. Recoil isnt too bad, but you know its thumpin the target.

What I meant was if there are any standard pressure loads suitable for hunting. And if there are any loads at all superior to the 30-30 (within range limitations of course, I know a .45 will never have the trajectory of a 30-30).
 

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Army GI said:
Yes, I've fired their standard pressure stuff. Its really nice. Recoil isnt too bad, but you know its thumpin the target.

What I meant was if there are any standard pressure loads suitable for hunting. And if there are any loads at all superior to the 30-30 (within range limitations of course, I know a .45 will never have the trajectory of a 30-30).
Yes, there are several standard pressure loads suitable for hunting, Winchester, Remington, and I think maybe PMC all make jacketed loads at usual velocities. Add 200fps or so for rifle barrels and it's a decent round for close range work. Would they be superior than a 30-30? That's hard to say. I've used the 30-30 at close range and had the bullets pass through the game without it expanding, ending with a long tracking session; not fun in south Texas brush!
On the other hand I've used the factory JHP .45 offerings and had poor accuracy, resulting in a terminal but gut shot animal.

Personally I would rather have a large caliber, heavy and slow bullet with a large meplat or reliably expanding hollow point and distances under 50-75 yards, providing I can put the bullet where I want it. If you reload or have a friend who will do it for you, I'd pick up some brass, powder and primers, plus either a hard cast bullet with a wide meplat or some good jacketed hollowpoints like the Gold-Dot, SXT, or Starfire, maybe even Barnes if they make a tube safe .45 caliber, and have them loaded to 1000 fps (measured w/ pistol), which will give you added range and power out of your rifle, while still maintaining "standard" pressure for the venerable .45 Colt.

I would still caution against their use in any of the reproduction revolvers, they just aren't made for sustained heavy loads, Rugers are a different story.
 

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PS- Buffalo Bore heavy ammo, while safe in most lever actions, will give you quite a slap on the shoulder.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
SFT said:
Yes, there are several standard pressure loads suitable for hunting, Winchester, Remington, and I think maybe PMC all make jacketed loads at usual velocities. Add 200fps or so for rifle barrels and it's a decent round for close range work. Would they be superior than a 30-30? That's hard to say. I've used the 30-30 at close range and had the bullets pass through the game without it expanding, ending with a long tracking session; not fun in south Texas brush!
On the other hand I've used the factory JHP .45 offerings and had poor accuracy, resulting in a terminal but gut shot animal.

Personally I would rather have a large caliber, heavy and slow bullet with a large meplat or reliably expanding hollow point and distances under 50-75 yards, providing I can put the bullet where I want it. If you reload or have a friend who will do it for you, I'd pick up some brass, powder and primers, plus either a hard cast bullet with a wide meplat or some good jacketed hollowpoints like the Gold-Dot, SXT, or Starfire, maybe even Barnes if they make a tube safe .45 caliber, and have them loaded to 1000 fps (measured w/ pistol), which will give you added range and power out of your rifle, while still maintaining "standard" pressure for the venerable .45 Colt.

I would still caution against their use in any of the reproduction revolvers, they just aren't made for sustained heavy loads, Rugers are a different story.
Yeah, I don't put too much trust in the factory loaded .45 Colt ammo. I've had some unsatisfactory performance from Remington .45 Colt.

I do buy handloaded ammo from www.starsandstripesammo.com. The man makes some really good ammo. His standard pressure stuff is loaded to about the same as you mentioned (1000fps).

It's good to know that the standard pressure rounds are suitable for hunting at 50-75 yards and even superior to the 30-30 in some circumstances at those ranges. Whats the limit to the size of game you can hunt with that? Deer? Boar?

But my question was where there any Colt +P rounds superior to the 30-30?
 

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Army GI said:
Yeah, I don't put too much trust in the factory loaded .45 Colt ammo. I've had some unsatisfactory performance from Remington .45 Colt.

I do buy handloaded ammo from www.starsandstripesammo.com. The man makes some really good ammo. His standard pressure stuff is loaded to about the same as you mentioned (1000fps).

It's good to know that the standard pressure rounds are suitable for hunting at 50-75 yards and even superior to the 30-30 in some circumstances at those ranges. Whats the limit to the size of game you can hunt with that? Deer? Boar?
I'd say that standard pressure ammo would limit you to medium size game, not more than 175 pounds, but that would be my personal limit.

But my question was where there any Colt +P rounds superior to the 30-30?
All things being equal, yes, I find the 260-325 grain .45 bullets to be superior to a 30-30. You've already got a .45 caliber entry wound whereas the .30 cal has to expand (hopefully) up to that size. Now keep in mind that we are comparing a rile cartridge to a pistol round even though we are talking about performance out of a rifle barrel for both. Nothing makes up for a bad shot, and if I had to put 100 rounds downrange for practice before going hunting, I sure wouldn't be doing it over one weekend with heavy 45 ammo. I can, however, imagine doing that with a 30-30 considering cost of ammo and my shoulder.
Inside of 100 yards on game up to 1000pds., I know for sure BB's hard cast 325gr. heavy .45 Colt will work as long as I do my part. Give me a scoped rifle and I'll chose the 30-30 knowing there'd be a chance for a 100+ yard animal.
 

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Here's some info from Buffalo Bore on their standard pressure heavy .45 LC load.

All of today’s standard 45 colt loads are very anemic. Often featuring a 250 gr. Bullet at around 700 fps.
We knew that we could develop a couple standard pressure 45 colt loads that would feature a 255gr. Gas checked soft cast bullet at around 1,000 fps or a 200gr. JHC (Speer low velocity Gold Dot) at around 1,100fps. We wanted loads that were substantially more powerful than today’s weenie loads, but that could be fired in ANY 45 colt firearm.
Both of these 45 colt loads are designed to be a heavy loading, yet be within standard (SAAMI) pressure. As such, both of these 45 colt loads are safe and recommended to be used IN ANY post-war 45 colt that is in normal working condition. ANY post-war means ANY post-war, so please take my word for it without phoning or emailing me “just to make sure”. I love hearing from and appreciate customers, I really do, but there is no sense using up your or my time answering questions that have already been answered.
These loads are indeed heavy 45 colt loadings. You can fire them in any post-war firearm that is in normal working condition chambered for 45 colt without reservation. These loads will turn your Colt SAA or clone into a powerful carry gun. The cast load (item 3E) is gas checked and will not substantially lead your barrel.

See the below velocities.

STANDARD PRESSURE 45 Colt velocities
FIREARM

Item 3E - 255 gr.
Item 3F - 200 gr.
S&W Mt. Gun (4 inch) 949 fps 1015 fps
Colt SAA 2nd generation (4 ¾ inch) 983 fps 1047 fps
Colt NF SAA 2nd generation (5.5 inch) 984 fps 1038 fps
Custom Ruger Bisley (5.5 inch Pac-Nor bbl)1047 fps 1136 fps
Colt NF SAA 3rd generation(7.5 inch)1053 fps 1112 fps
Now, the rifle only heavy .45 lists as: 325 gr. L.B.T.- L.F.N. (1325 fps / M.E. 1267 ft. lbs.) (Big game up to 1000 lbs.)
Those numbers don't equal factory 30-30 loads, but again, I've found it to be a better game killer inside 100 yards, usually less than that, 45 yards has been the farthest, than a 30-30.
http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/meplats.htm
 

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Here's an article from a very experienced user of and reloader for the the 45LC in several Lever guns.

His name is Paco Kelly and his knowledge plentiful.

The linked article is all about loading for the Winchester 94, 92, and Marlin 94

It's a great read and will definitely change your mind about the comparison between the 30-30 and 45lc as a hunting round.

I've also listed some of his loads for a 260gr bullet... Keep in mind this is a 260gr bullet !!!!!

Not a 150gr or 170gr 30-30

These loads will make a deer or hog give up the ghost at 150yds fairly easily.

Anyway, there are more loads in the article...Enjoy

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm


Some very balanced rifle loads:



ALL LOADS TESTED IN MY 1892S.....WINCHESTER AND MARLIN 94S.

(Pressure levels also effected by which rifles are used)

260 Keith 12/Unique 30,000 CUP for 1600 fps

260 Keith 18.5/2400 26,000 CUP for 1666 fps

260 Keith 20/2400 30,000 CUP for 1770 fps

260 Keith 22/2400 32,600 CUP for 1870 fps

260 Keith 23.5/296 22,000 CUP for 1599 fps

260 Keith 25/296 25,000 CUP for 1710 fps

260 Keith 26/296 30,000 CUP for 1850 fps

260 Keith 27/296 32,000 CUP for 1940 fps

260 Keith 26 H110 29,900 CUP for 1855 fps

260 Keith 27/H110 32,500 CUP for 1965 fps

260 Keith 22/H4227 29,000 CUP for 1710 fps

260 Keith 25/H4227 31,000 CUP for 1880 fps
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
I read that article, and I agree with most of what Paco has to say.

But I bet this will get the "high velocity crowd" all riled up:

The 45 long Colt at 100 yards has slowed to 1600 FPS and the killing level has dropped to almost KS of 63 from 79. Where the 30-30 load has dropped to 1930FPS to a KS 46 from 53.4.....that should make a few yell ‘foul...can’t be’, but it is! And from my use of these 45 loads in the field for years on large game....I can tell you it is.....! As many gunwriters have stated over the years, a 44 mag or heavy loaded 45 long Colt fired from a rifle is more powerful than a 30-30 at 100 yards....actually they are more powerful than the great 30-30, at a lot further than 100 yards.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Wow.

The more I learn about this, the more I'm glad I went with .45 Colt :)

Everyone on these forums and others pretty much convinced me to get .45 Colt because of it's wide spectrum of power levels to experiment with. I can load everything from 200gr plinker loads to 300gr loads that beat rifles under 100 yards.

Thanks to everything that helped make this happen!

PS: What's the heaviest bullet weight that I should use in a +P load? 350? I never shot anything heavier than 300 gr.

Also, what's the heaviest bullet weight can I use for standard pressure loads? Is the old standby 250gr bullet the heaviest for that application?
 

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Army GI said:
Wow.

The more I learn about this, the more I'm glad I went with .45 Colt :)

Everyone on these forums and others pretty much convinced me to get .45 Colt because of it's wide spectrum of power levels to experiment with. I can load everything from 200gr plinker loads to 300gr loads that beat rifles under 100 yards.

Thanks to everything that helped make this happen!

PS: What's the heaviest bullet weight that I should use in a +P load? 350? I never shot anything heavier than 300 gr.

Also, what's the heaviest bullet weight can I use for standard pressure loads? Is the old standby 250gr bullet the heaviest for that application?
I think as the weight increases you may start to get into dimishing returns. The 325 grainer puts big holes in pigs, sometimes two (hogs) with one shot, and recoil is, well, noticable. It drops like a stone after 60 yards or so, and that means you'll have to know your rifle and the where the load hits in between 60-100 yards, so that's the heaviest I'd go with. A well built 260 grain would be my choice for deer and all but the heaviest hogs, which are few and far between, but you've got a repeater too.
 
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