[thebigcheese109]

Hey everyone I have been looking at getting a new scale. Right now I have a Lee beam scale that I don't really like and a cheap digital that isn't very accurate, only measures by .2 grains not .1. I've been looking at digital and beam. Anyone know anything about Ohaus digital scales or RCBS's digital scales. What is a good scale and should I get digital or beam.

Thanks

 

[Gil Martin]

It depends what you prefer

I use several RCBS 505 grain beam scales and weigh every charge for rifle or handgun cartridges. I also have Redding and Ohaus beam scales, but prefer the RCBS (which are probably made by Ohaus). All the best...
Gil

 

[broom_jm]

I have a 505 beam scale and a small digital. I check the digital against the beam scale periodically, but use the smaller, faster digital scale because it is far more convenient. I don't trust it 100% though and that's why I check it using the beam scale.

 

[jaguarxk120]

Ohaus has been making scales for a verry long time. Scales are their main product.

 

[unclenick]

Agree with the other guys that a beam is the way to check that your digital scale's strain gauge glue hasn't cracked. I have several digital scales and an Ohaus beam balance. In your shoes, I would keep the Lee as a cross check (though check weights are faster) and probably buy Brian Enos's digital scale. It has a 20 year warranty, which is pretty much unheard of for digital scales. He seems to have checked it out pretty well. Be aware there is an identical looking scale on the market for half the price, but it isn't the same internally. It has half the capacity and lacks the long warranty, so it's a different load cell. You want the version Brian sells.

 

[kludge]

I'm a cheap ***, so I got a couple cheap digital scales to try out. The first was $6 on sale from ~$30 and was a total disaster. It broke within a few weeks and would skip tenths of a grain.

The scale I have now (in addition to a Lee and a Lyman 505) was $23 shipped. Goes to 20g (~300gr). I have compared it to a $1500 (that was a loooong time ago) Ohaus laboratory scale at work. Put it this way... it would require a $500 check weight to determine which one is more accurate. I will stop short of saying that they are "accurate" to 0.02gr, but they are more than good enough for reloading.

Beware of scales that are accurate to 0.01g. There is a conversion error when going to grains, and sometimes they skip a tenth. A good portion of scales sold as "reloading" scales can't always resolve to 0.1gr.

Here's one example (since Nick mentioned it): http://www.brianenos.com/store/be.scale.html

Capacity Accuracy
1543.4 grains 0.1 grains
100.00 grams 0.01 grams

It might be accurate to 0.01g and read out to 0.1gr, but it can not have 0.1gr resolution, so it can be no more accurate than 0.2gr. (see chart below)

My first digital scale was prone to this and was frustrating. What if I want 8.7gr or 9.5gr? Cant' get there. You need at least 0.005g resolution to be able to round to the nearest 0.1gr. 0.005g accuracy will resolve to ~0.04gr (probably good enough for consistent charges to 0.1gr). 0.001g accuracy will resolve to ~0.02gr. If someone has the Brian Enos scale and can demonstrate differently, I'd like to know, because otherwise it looks nice.

1 gram = 15.432358 grains

grams grains rounded off
0.50 7.7162 7.7
0.51 7.8705 7.9
0.52 8.0248 8.0
0.53 8.1791 8.2
0.54 8.3335 8.3
0.55 8.4878 8.5
0.56 8.6421 8.6
0.57 8.7964 8.8
0.58 8.9508 9.0
0.59 9.1051 9.1
0.60 9.2594 9.3
0.61 9.4137 9.4
0.62 9.5681 9.6
0.63 9.7224 9.7
0.64 9.8767 9.9
0.65 10.0310 10.0
0.66 10.1854 10.2
0.67 10.3397 10.3
0.68 10.4940 10.5
0.69 10.6483 10.6

Here's my scale: DealExtreme: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10515

I've had it and been using it for about a year, so far so good. The tray is too small for my powder pan, though, so I have to work around it.

FWIW, my scale is identical to the $80 American Weigh scale.
http://www.scales-n-tools.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3

I'm not trying to sell anyone on it, I merely set out to prove/disprove the notion that cheap Chinese scales are total junk. There are better scales out there, but at several times the price. These for instance:

http://www.scales-n-tools.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=428

http://www.scales-n-tools.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=79

The second one has 0.002g resolution which will resolve to ~0.03gr, and is a good buy IMO at $122, Plus it has 100g capacity (>1500gr), so it will weigh just about any bullet out there.

ETA: oops, sale's over it's back up to $167.

 

[simcoe]

I have an electronic RCBS 750 and a RCBS chargemaster combo, they both come with their own calibration weights and I have two sets of check weights I also use for comparison. Both have always been spot on for accuracy and I've had no trouble with either. (message to self, must remember to close hopper valve before pouring in powder) That being said, I do think I'm going to pick up another beam scale as I gave away the three I had to new reloader friends. Just a little insurance. Besides can't have to much "stuff"..

 

[thebigcheese109]

Thanks for the info guys.

Anyone know anything on the RCBS 1010 beam scale?

I am thinking about either getting the RCBS 750 digital or the RCBS 1010

 

[evandailey]

Thanks for the info guys.

Anyone know anything on the RCBS 1010 beam scale?

I am thinking about either getting the RCBS 750 digital or the RCBS 1010

If you're considering a beam scale check out the Dillon. My buddy has one and it will be my next purchase.

 

[willygene]

i have a dillon beam scale and a rcbs 505 both are great and accurate i also use a rcbs 750 electronic scale has it's own check weights always calibrates and zeros and works fine to check against the beams or by it's self.

 

[temmi]

I have RCBS's Chargemaster Combo too (the new one).

It think it is great. I got it the year it came out and have never had any problem...

Here is a review that may interest you

http://www.6mmbr.com/powderdispensers01.html

 

[unclenick]

Beware of scales that are accurate to 0.01g. There is a conversion error when going to grains, and sometimes they skip a tenth. A good portion of scales sold as "reloading" scales can't always resolve to 0.1gr.

Here's one example (since Nick mentioned it): http://www.brianenos.com/store/be.scale.html

That is not correct in this instance. I spoke with Brian Enos and he assures me his scale does not skip digits.

The issue is internal resolution. If the scale internally resolves 0.01 grams and converts to 0.1 grains, you get the digit skip you are talking about. If the internal resolution is 0.1 grains and it converts to 0.01 grams, no digits will be skipped, though they will repeat occasionally because of the gram unit being larger. My CED Pocket Scale is like this, also.

Rounded output for grams on scale with internal tenth grain resolution.

Grains    Grams
0.1    0.01
0.2    0.01
0.3    0.02
0.4    0.03
0.5    0.03
0.6    0.04
0.7    0.05
0.8    0.05
0.9    0.06
1.0    0.07
1.1    0.07
1.2    0.08
1.3    0.09
1.4    0.10
1.5    0.10
1.6    0.11

It is interesting to hear about your inexpensive scale. The ones sold by Frankford Arsenal get mixed reviews, with about half of people satisfied, the rest not so happy. It has been a common complaint with inexpensive scales (and even a few not-so-inexpensive scales) that you either get a "good one" or a "bad one". One expects, like all electronics, the bang for the buck will tend to get better over time. You either got a "good one" or your scale is the next improvement in load cell design. I don't see any bad reviews for it, though it doesn't have as many reviews yet as the F.A. unit does. I read somewhere that the inexpensive scales worked on capacitance shift rather than a strain gauge. No reason for that not to work in principle, though they may be more sensitive to RF interference.

There are other factors to consider in a loading scale. One is how fast it warms up and another is how quickly each reading settles. The CED Pocket Scale I have is very fast at both, but the fellow I bought it through quit selling them because of returned "bad ones". In that case, I got lucky and got a "good one". It works flawlessly.

Brian Enos says he spoke with a distributor and retailer who'd sold his scale for several years and who said they'd had no returns. He's got a customer testimonial to it needing no real warm-up time and to it settling fast. So, coupled with the warranty, it still sounds to me like a satisfying instrument. Its 100 gram capacity will make it more useful to persons wanting to check weigh cast bullets for .45-70's and so on.

 

[broom_jm]

Speaking of scales with higher weight capacity, has anyone ever sorted their handloads by the total weight of loaded cartridges, to see if they grouped better?

 

[kludge]

Nick, you bring up a good point, and I didn't really think of it until you brought it up, but regardless of how the scale works, a digital scale is going to have a A/D converter (usually in in the microcontroller itself).

It's easy enough to program the chip to either to do a calculation on the result of the A/D conversion. If you're smart, each mode would have it's own calculation, but I'm afraid that some people would just program it to multiply by a constant when changing modes - and getting the skipping of digits.

The "problem" with multiple calculations is that it would take more memory, and memory costs money. One alternative is to get a microcroller with more bits of resultion on the A/D converter (like 12 bits instead of 10 or 8 bits, that's probably cheaper than memory). The result of having more bits is that it pushes the coversion error beyond the point where you care about it.

BTW these microprocessors were talking about, in the large quantities they are purchased, are probably in the range of 30 to 50 cents each. The microproccesor I used on one of my projects was between 50 and 60 cents and had 4k of memory. You can cram A LOT of code into 4k in Assembly Language, and I'm thinking these mircos need much less memory than that, maybe as little as 512kB. The one scale I took apart made me believe that the BOM cost on one of these cheap scales is probably less than $5. The "expensive" ones ($100-$200) might be $20. The sensor was a steel bar with something along with wires and glue on the side of the bar. It reminded my of a piezo.

 

[simcoe]

Back to the questions at hand, OP asked about an RCBS 1010 scale being any good. Yes, they are a very good beam scale..

 

[unclenick]

The "problem" with multiple calculations is that it would take more memory, and memory costs money. . The sensor was a steel bar with something along with wires and glue on the side of the bar. It reminded my of a piezo.

It was a strain gauge if it was glued to the beam. Basically a resistance foil etched in a zig zag pattern and sandwiched in Kapton film and lead wires soldered to the ends of the foil. They are glued to the beam with an epoxy, usually, and deflection of the beam then creates a slight bend that actually stretches or compresses the foil, changing its resistance. You can use a half bridge with a stable fixed resistor to measure the change. The fancier ones have a foil "rosette" of four gauges at 90° angles for form a full bridge that is entirely composed of strain gauges so the temperature stability is best. Metal strain in response to stress is very linear in its true elastic range, and strain gauge load cells that resolve 6 decimal places are not unusual in lab gear.

I have an Acculab scale that resolves 0.001 grams (0.015 grains). It internally measures to 0.0001 grams, then averages 10 readings before displaying. It's a strategy to stabilize jitter.