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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, still doing research on caliber selection. I added another one into the mix. The 25-06. I realize I would have to get the encore frame instead of the contender. This round seems to be ideal for both smaller game and upto deer.Looks to be a flat shooter. But is this round really designed to be shot out of a 12 inch pistol or do better in a rifle barrel? Im thinking the 25-06 should be a little more efficient than the 30-30.Now would I do the 25-06 justice by learning to reload?I do not reload at this time. Been looking for reviews on the 25-06 used in pistols but am coming up short. People like it in their rifles. When I look at balistic charts for this caliber Im assuming that the fps and energy are given for rifle size barrels. How do I determine how much less it is coming out of a 12 inch barrel?And muzzle energy? Thanks again guys, Steve
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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I would think it would be horribly loud in a 12" barrel. Let me run it through Quickload.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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OK, here is a random .25-06 load, 115gr. bullet with 56gr. of H4831. 24" barrel predicted to yield just over 3,100fps. Muzzle pressure (which is going to correlate with the noise/blast) is about 12,600 psi.

Cut the barrel to 12" inches. Velocity drops to under 2,500fps, and muzzle pressure is now up to over twice as much, about 26,000psi.

It ought to really rattle your teeth......
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
25-06

Thanks Mike for looking that up. Does that also mean the recoil is going to be heavy? Is that a free online program or do you have to buy into it? Thanks, Steve
 

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The 25-06 should be a good choice. I think you would be happy with the choice of the encore over the contender also. Recoil won't be bad at all. Remember that felt recoil is a result of several factors and with the heavy 15" encore barrel, the weight of the gun and the general shape of the gun, recoil is easy to handle. I have put a ton of lead down range with my '06 encore and it's a lot of fun to shoot.
Advantages of the contender are it's light weight, easy to convert to rim fire and at least in the older ones it had trigger adjustments built in.
Advantages of the encore are a strong frame that can handle most anything that you would like to shoot in either handgun or rifle configuration. Trigger adjustment can be done fairly in expensive by a gunsmith or you can do like I did and go to http://bellmtcs.com/store/ and download the instructions on working the trigger, and order the springs and hones that you want. When I did my encore years ago, you had to order a CD with the instructions. I got the CD and I think he had three trigger springs back then. I ordered all three and got a hone and went to work. I settled on the lightest spring.
He now has the right stones and files right on his web site, trigger and hammer springs and a few other goodies that you can order.
I say go with the encore even if you end up buying a caliber that works with the contender just because it makes you more versatile for future barrels.
If you don't like the calibers that TC offers, or you don't like the length of barrels that they offer try eabco.com . They offer more all the TC, TC custom shop and their own custom barrels.
 

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Thanks Mike for looking that up. Does that also mean the recoil is going to be heavy? Is that a free online program or do you have to buy into it? Thanks, Steve
Steve, when you shorten the barrel from a rifle to a pistol, it is often advisable to either shorten the case (to 250 Savage, as recommended) or increase the caliber size. If you were to shoot any factory ammo from a 12", or even 15", 25-'06 barrel, you would get a dazzling display of muzzle blast and yes, significant recoil. To answer an earlier question, pretty much anything you shoot from a 12-15" Encore barrel is going to benefit from loading your own ammo. This can really be said of any rifle, but even more so with the Contender/Encore lineup, because they are longer than a pistol, shorter than a carbine or rifle. This means tailoring your load to the gun/barrel has greater benefits than with a standard pistol or rifle configuration.

Personally, I think the 25-'06 would be a LOUSY choice for a Contender. It has a tall, narrow powder column that will not be conducive to either factory loads, or even to typical handloads. Think in terms of shorter, fatter cases or larger bore diameters. A 7mm-08 is a very good option, although it will also benefit quite a bit from using reloads, versus factory.

You just gave me an idea for a new survey...maybe the results of that will help you decide.
 

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Like He Sez,BUT ---->

I am pretty much with what 45_70 sez in his above post except the caliber. I have several T/C's and Encores and swear by the Bellm's products and his knowledge in the T/C shooting systems. All my weapons shoot extremely well thanks to Mike Bellm.

I would also recommend that you go with the Encore system,specifically the Pro Hunter. You WILL want future bbls,guaranteed,and you will not want to be limited to low pressure/low case head thrust,chamberings. In fact,think about gettin' two bbl's. One dedicated to deer and another for varmints. There are tons of good choices for both with the Encore(also with the Contender).

As for your OP,I would disagree with the .25-06. ESPECIALLY(!) if you do not reload. Your choices of bullets and power will be somewhat limited. You will be subjected to more recoil and muzzle blast(over-pressures)than needed for killin' them small furry critters.

I would also suggest that you determine if you will tool up to reload before deciding on weapon OR caliber. It will(should)definitely make a difference in your choices. Check out the factory loadings in each caliber that is a potential choice. For reloading the Encore,your choices are vast. Chamberings like the 243,260,7-08,and even the 308 offer whole bunches of bullet weights. And can be loaded up or down for practice,initial sight in,or killin'.

Name of the game is application(yours...not mine). Read up,study up,talk to other owners/shooters of your choices,gather up all opinions and sort thru them,armed with the knowledge that you have obtained.

Let us know what decision you ultimately make. It will surely help others on this board. ----pruhdlr
 

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i agree with pruhdlr, i will state flat out that i LOVE the 25/06 but it would be my last choice for an encore pistol!!! the muzzle blast will be horrible as will the recoil due to the muzzle pressure. one thing i've learned from playing with the encores is that moderate to smaller capacity cases are more enjoyable to shoot and more efficient.
bellm does have some good information on his wesite but a lot of it is dated and i often wonder how or even if it applies to the stuff being produced today. i have several encore barrels and they all shoot great from the factory. for deer i've been using the 7/08 & a 45 colt. and have had great luck. i use the 250gr hornady ftx bullet and juice it up with a hot load of H110... works well!
as to the 7/08 i used the 120gr ballistic tip here in nodak this past fall and was really disappointed with the amount of bloodshot meat, won't be using them again!!
 

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I was going down the Encore expansion route a few years ago and was interested in buying a Carbine barrel - 18 inches, for deer sized game. I did a lot of research. The .250 Savage was the most efficient round of all that I looked at for that barrel. That said, I think it would be good for a long barrel pistol too. I KNOW it would be better than a .25-06. The 06 class rounds are just not smart for an Encore pistol. The .308 class is better, and the .300 Savage better yet.
 

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contender

Hello, still doing research on caliber selection. I added another one into the mix. The 25-06. I realize I would have to get the encore frame instead of the contender. This round seems to be ideal for both smaller game and upto deer.Looks to be a flat shooter. But is this round really designed to be shot out of a 12 inch pistol or do better in a rifle barrel? Im thinking the 25-06 should be a little more efficient than the 30-30.Now would I do the 25-06 justice by learning to reload?I do not reload at this time. Been looking for reviews on the 25-06 used in pistols but am coming up short. People like it in their rifles. When I look at balistic charts for this caliber Im assuming that the fps and energy are given for rifle size barrels. How do I determine how much less it is coming out of a 12 inch barrel?And muzzle energy? Thanks again guys, Steve
a 2506 will be loud ,kick and not particularly effective 7mm08 much better .no way is it resposible to shoot at deer with 12" 2506,
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thank to everyone on all that Knowledge shared;now if I ...

understand this right, for what I will be shooting I should be looking for a shorter more compact casing instead of narrow taller casings. I really dont understand why that is. Does this have something to do with the burn rate. I assume I want a faster burning load because Im going to be using a 12-15inch barrel.Now will these stout cartridges develope less internal pressures than taller casings?Is this the same when they talk about 50,000 cpu or in psi.
Now I did find some cartridges that fit the bill. A couple of yous mentioned the 7-08. Looks to be a very good cartridge.Verstile, many choices, flat shooting, efficient burn,easy to find and it looks like a easy and forgiving cartridge to reload.Also looked on wikipedia and found some other ideas. These casings they call WSSM and WSM.I saw them in .25 and .300. Should I be looking into these also? As always thanks guys, Steve
 

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understand this right, for what I will be shooting I should be looking for a shorter more compact casing instead of narrow taller casings. I really dont understand why that is. Does this have something to do with the burn rate. I assume I want a faster burning load because Im going to be using a 12-15inch barrel.Now will these stout cartridges develope less internal pressures than taller casings?Is this the same when they talk about 50,000 cpu or in psi.
Now I did find some cartridges that fit the bill. A couple of yous mentioned the 7-08. Looks to be a very good cartridge.Verstile, many choices, flat shooting, efficient burn,easy to find and it looks like a easy and forgiving cartridge to reload.Also looked on wikipedia and found some other ideas. These casings they call WSSM and WSM.I saw them in .25 and .300. Should I be looking into these also? As always thanks guys, Steve
Think of the cartridge performance this way. If you have a given volume of a flammable substance and you light it. Do you think that a tall skinny pile or a shorter wider pile with more surface area is going to burn faster?
The powder lights in the back and burns to the front, so pretty close to the example of the two piles.
More efficient burn with limited barrel to burn it in.
As for the Wikipedia, the data there is published from who ever decides to post what they think or want you to think. Last place to look for data.
The WSM cartridges have not taken off the way that they wanted them to because they are pretty much a gimmick. They fill no gap with the existing cartridges.
Winchester started to offer their rifles almost exclusively in these cartridges and it was a financial disaster for them. Stick to more main stream cartridges to get you going. The ammo is easy to find and cheaper. When you get more into it and especially if you start reloading, feel free to explore.
If you are using a 15" barrel in the encore, it's about 70 to 75 percent of a normal hunting rifle barrel so it is more efficient than most give it credit for. Don't get me wrong. A long heavy barrel is an advantage but the 15" heavy barrel in the encore will work quite well with most rifle cartridges.
If you want to hunt deer with the pistol, think about the range you will be shooting and use that to help you pick a cartridge. I doubt you would be shooting far enough to need more than a 7-08, 308, 30-30 or one of my favorite rounds, the 45-70. Factory ammo in any of these choices would do the trick for you. All but the 7-08 you know you can find anywhere.
If you want to choose something just because it sounds fun and will do the trick for deer, the sky's the limit.
 

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Steve,

I'm not too sure how well the WSM/WSSM line of cartridges would do from an Encore, but the 65,000psi of pressure they run at is going to be very stout in a standing breech firearm. For the Contender, you want to stick to cases of ~40,000psi and for the Encore, I'd suggest 55,000psi, or less. The "short-fat" revolution was using higher pressure from larger diameter cases to "improve performance". The results of that effort are open for debate, but most of these cartridges basically duplicate, in a shorter action, what you could already get from a standard action. It was done, primarily, to try and generate sales and the entire endeavor appears headed for failure.

For factory offerings, stick with something in the 308 family (243Win, 260Rem, 7mm-08) or the 308, itself. If you're open to the idea of reloading, then the number of options increases quite a bit, although you're not likely to get a much better balance of recoil and performance from any cartridge, in a 15" Encore barrel, than you'll see from the 7mm-08.
 

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Yeah I agree with that. I think the WSMs would be a terrible idea for an Encore. The rebated rim and high pressure would be bad and bad. To me, even a .308 class round is overbore for the pistol barrel lengths. Although I am sure you could work up some good 7-08 loads as suggested above.
 

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my encore pistol in 7/08 has been very good in the 15" bbl. sure you give up some velocity but not as much as you'd think. i have used AA4350 & VV150 in the pistol and have been very happy with the results, good velocity and somewhat milder recoil due to the slower burning powder.

i tell you in all honesty forget about worrying about powder burn speed as it just doesn't really matter as long as the powder is appropriate for the cartridge. i've used everything from 3031, tac, rl15 vv150 and 4350 and will tell you that they all perform wonderfully.
you won't find any wsm or wssm chambered encores due to the diameter of the case and the operating pressure, and certainly the rebated rim is a huge factor as well. i do like my 7/08 but i have every intention of modifying it so that i can use 307 brass in the gun... the rimless cases are a major hinderance for fast reloading. if i was going to buy a 308 barrel i'd order it in 307 as opposed to buying an off the shelf 308 unless one of the first things i planned to do with it was have the chamber cut for the rim so i could use 307 brass!!
 

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my encore pistol in 7/08 has been very good in the 15" bbl. sure you give up some velocity but not as much as you'd think. i have used AA4350 & VV150 in the pistol and have been very happy with the results, good velocity and somewhat milder recoil due to the slower burning powder.

i tell you in all honesty forget about worrying about powder burn speed as it just doesn't really matter as long as the powder is appropriate for the cartridge. i've used everything from 3031, tac, rl15 vv150 and 4350 and will tell you that they all perform wonderfully.
you won't find any wsm or wssm chambered encores due to the diameter of the case and the operating pressure, and certainly the rebated rim is a huge factor as well. i do like my 7/08 but i have every intention of modifying it so that i can use 307 brass in the gun... the rimless cases are a major hinderance for fast reloading. if i was going to buy a 308 barrel i'd order it in 307 as opposed to buying an off the shelf 308 unless one of the first things i planned to do with it was have the chamber cut for the rim so i could use 307 brass!!
Since you obviously handload, be advised that 307 brass typically has much thicker walls and head, reducing case capacity quite a bit. A medium to hot load in 308 brass would more than likely be unsafe in 307 brass.
 
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