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ive got a witness 40 sw that i can readily shoot 3" groups with at 40 yards, and with the scope mounted i can extend that out to nearly 60 yards.
I'm going to be using it for hunting deer in my bow stands, after bow season ends. ranges will be in the 45 yard neighborhood.

i know this is a hot topic because most feel that this is an inadequate firearm for the job. i however do know how to shoot, when to shoot and most importantly, when to NOT SHOOT.

so... What i want to know is this...


what will allow the best penetration, through mostly soft tissue, and a couple ribs....?
should i go light, and fast,
or heavy and slow?

not worried about expansion... the bullet diameter is plenty, what i need is penetration.. and bullet weight retentioin. likely to be a flat tipped fmj or something like that.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Beartooth 200grn WFNGC. Good luck.
 

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Heavy and slow is my preference but first check point is the 40 legal? The second point, what round is the most accurate in your gun?
 

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ive got a witness 40 sw that i can readily shoot 3" groups with at 40 yards, and with the scope mounted i can extend that out to nearly 60 yards.
I'm going to be using it for hunting deer in my bow stands, after bow season ends. ranges will be in the 45 yard neighborhood.

i know this is a hot topic because most feel that this is an inadequate firearm for the job. i however do know how to shoot, when to shoot and most importantly, when to NOT SHOOT.
I'm all for challenging yourself and using less when it is appropriate. This is not appropriate. At least step up to a 357 Magnum.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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I've used both and frankly did not see a great deal of difference in the field.... unscientific observations, perhaps.....
 

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I've used both and frankly did not see a great deal of difference in the field.... unscientific observations, perhaps.....
Scientifically speaking:

40 S&W - 165 gr Speer Gold Dot JHP 1,150 ft/s 484 ft·lb

357Mag - 158 gr Speer Gold Dot JHP 1,400 ft/s 688 ft·lb

These are velocity and energy figures from a pistol, taken at the muzzle. Suggested energy for harvesting a deer is ~600ft lbs. which makes the .357Mag, from a pistol, pretty marginal. Not saying the 40S&W won't do the job, it's just a little too "iffy", for me. I personally consider the .357Mag to be the smallest, least powerful round to hunt deer with, under normal hunting conditions. With a pistol, range should probably be kept under 50 yards and with a rifle, under 100 yards.
 

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That Beartooth 200 gr. sounds just ducky for deer hunting with a .40 S&W if you handload. If you don't, fear not, any good 180 gr. JHP would do the trick with no muss or fuss, as long as you put it in the right spot.

I have killed quite a few deer with a .40 when I was a LEO; it works. We used a 155 gr. JHP as a duty load, but the 180's would probably penetrate a tad better.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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180s with the .357, and 200s with the .40 cals... both cast..... the .40 a shorter range proposition, but with cast, I don't care re: energy.

The Beartooth 200gr. bullet will run about 900fps or so in a .40, with careful load development, and the 10mm a bit faster.

The .357 and 10mm run the same about the same velocities, with 200gr. bullets, there's another way to look at it.

It's not everyone's cup of tea, but it works. At least how I look at it.

I wouldn't use the .40 with lightweight hollowpoints, but that's personal preference, I'm sure someone has and can report the combinations that work.
 

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i carry a .40 when hunting and it has put meat on the table on those far right shots when i couldnt turn enough with the rifle. at one time i used a .40 carbine to hunt bear over hounds and it worked fine. with the carbine the farthest shot i took and cleanly killed a hog was about 85 yards paced. i carry 180 grain winchester hp when hunting and 165 federal hydro shock for defense. the federals dont penetrate as well and that is what i like for defense so that there are no pass thrus. good luck it is a very rewarding task to put meat on the table with a side arm.
 

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It is more about ethics than physics

I think this is more of an ethical question that only you can answer. A .22 will kill a deer with the right shot placement, but it is not the most humane way to do the job. The conditions must be right and you must be willing to wait for the right shot (within your limitations as a shooter) or wait for the next deer to come along. Only you know if you are able to do that. If not, you owe it to the animals that you hunt to step up to something with more killing power and give yourself a little more room for error.
 

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im not to well connected ..but i never even heard of hunting deer with a handgun ..until i got on this forum..i don t think peple do it around here much..could be wrong though. slim
 

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I hunt with a 357 Magnum, 357 Maximum, 44 Magnum and on occasion my 444 Marlin pistol. They are Contenders, so I have some versatility.

Currently around my area, I think the 357 Magnum is the lightest caliber you can use.

Jerry
 

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Heavy and slow is my preference but first check point is the 40 legal? The second point, what round is the most accurate in your gun?
Just to reiterate checking to make sure the .40 is legal. Even the 10 mm does not meet the case length requirement in KS
 

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I use a 45 colt , 250 gr at 900 fps. I only shoot under 30 yards , because of shot placement is important and I'm not interested in wounding deer.
 

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I don't disagree that the 40 is capable of taking deer sized game, it is expedted to stop human beings by many a LE agencys. I've gone out with my .357 Sig, but haven't had the right oppertunity yet. I did take a 190 lbs pig with the 10mm I carried on duty at the time. I wouldn't carry a round on duty that I couldn't expect to reliably take a deer sized game.

It sounds like you have the capability of acceptable accuracy. But I personally wouldn't try reaching out past 50 yrds with most rounds. I feel, other than maybe a handload designed for such, that most available handgun rounds are just not expected to work properly that far.

As for bullet type, I personally wouldn't go with a FMJ, but that is just me. I agree with wanting good penetration, but you don't want the bullet just "slipping" through either.

As for bullet weight/speed. I think a little of both is a good idea. I'm saying a fairly heavy/hard bullet traveling at relitively high velocity. I haven't got knowledge to recomend a specific bullet, so I'm basicly worthless.

Just my opinons....your milage may vary.
 

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Think and hunt like a bowhunter and you should be fine. Stay away from lightweight bullets and don't try to shoot thru the length of the deer either. I've seen Uncle Ted kill deer with 40S&W and 10mm and they die very quickly when they don't have any lungs left.
 

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have seen many deer killed with 22s with crop damage permits. head shots drop them instantly. trick to kill a deer with an ineffective caliber is shot placement and the deer must not be spooked . I'm sure a 40 through the engine room will do it you just have to have perfect shot placement. I wouldn't attempt to shoot through the shoulder but would go for the lungs just behind the shoulder. have seen deer shot there with 22 stingers and only go 40 yrds
 

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I don't disagree that the 40 is capable of taking deer sized game, it is expedted to stop human beings by many a LE agencys. I've gone out with my .357 Sig, but haven't had the right oppertunity yet. I did take a 190 lbs pig with the 10mm I carried on duty at the time. I wouldn't carry a round on duty that I couldn't expect to reliably take a deer sized game.

It sounds like you have the capability of acceptable accuracy. But I personally wouldn't try reaching out past 50 yrds with most rounds. I feel, other than maybe a handload designed for such, that most available handgun rounds are just not expected to work properly that far.

As for bullet type, I personally wouldn't go with a FMJ, but that is just me. I agree with wanting good penetration, but you don't want the bullet just "slipping" through either.

As for bullet weight/speed. I think a little of both is a good idea. I'm saying a fairly heavy/hard bullet traveling at relitively high velocity. I haven't got knowledge to recomend a specific bullet, so I'm basicly worthless.

Just my opinons....your milage may vary.
I'd say you answered the question pretty well Broke Hoss!
 
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