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Discussion Starter #1
I am very interested in the M1894, particularly in stainless steel (with a good, dark finish over top, of course!) but am annoyed with the lack of larger  chamberings.

For instance, the .44 Rem is only avail with a 1:38" twist barrel while there isn't a revolver in the world that uses a twist that slow!  I would think this would make it darn difficult to get a heavy bullet (over 300gr) to fly straight and stable to 200yds.  Yet, the .45 LC has a nice, fast twist that will easily stabilize bullets of up to 360gr.  Unfortunately, the only current factory M1894 chambered in .45 LC is the looooong and heeeeeavy Cowboy.  Not quite my cup of tea!

What about chambering the larger (lower pressure) Linebaugh cartridges?  The bolt face would need some major surgery even if the action would take it but I thought I would get your considered opinions on the subject.
 

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Kanuck:

Welcome to the forum.

The 1:38 twist found in the Marlin 1894 is more than adequate to stabilize bullet weights (read: lengths) up to and including 300g, maybe a bit more.

My 1894 has a 16 1/4" barrel with a 1:38 Micro-Groove twist and it tosses 300g Honady XTPs and 300g LBT WFNGCs (sized .432) at velocities of 1600+ fps with accuracy between 1" and 1 1/2" at 50yds and approximately 2", when I do my part, at 100yds. I have never experienced keyholing or other signs of instability. If I were designing the 1894 from scratch would I specify a 1:20 twist? Sure, but I have never been in the least bit dissatisfied with Marlin's standard 44 mag twist. That stainless 1894 is just what the doctor ordered!

Having said that, in no case would I consider ANY pistol caliber loading a 200yd proposition.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Although I have never shot a pistol cartridge carbine at 200yards, the math, and common sense, says that it should do just fine if you don't get all wrapped up about the "energy" numbers.

For instance, a 300gr WFN-GC has a BC of about .215.  It leaves the muzzle of a pistol at 1,250 to 1,300. Shots to 50 yds are just fine and 100yds stills leaves enough killing power to shoot through most critters.  At 100 yds velocity is down to 1050-1100 fps.

The same bullet leaves the muzzle of a carbine at 1,600-1,700 fps.  At 200yds it is going 1125-1175fps.  Provided you get the required degree of stability and accuracy to hit at that range, there is no reason at all, other than a bit of trajectory, that it won't do everything the revolver loaded with the same bullet can do.  Because of trajectory, I would keep maximum intended range to 150yds but I sure as heck would want to know how to hit at 200yds.

Your comments regarding the .44 Rem with the 1:38 twist are good to hear.  I have spoken to others with rifles (not Marlins) in this chambering and twist and they had no luck at all getting bullets to travel straight and stable past 50 yds.  But then, they were using factory ammo.  Lead bullets and slow twists seem to work very well together.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Kanuk,

As you say it's a matter of hitting.  That is the difficulty.  Not only trajectory but wind.

Sure I've hit game-sized rocks at ranges beyond that, with handguns no less.  But not on the first shot and certainly not good enough shot placement for humane hunting.

Good luck.
 

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Hi Kanuck:

Agreed... 200 yd ballistics are not principally the issue (although I get a BC significantly lower than that on the 300g WFNGC).

Most lever action carbines being two piece stock affairs along with underbarrel tubular magazines are simply not capable of MOA accuracy. And as Mike said, the longer the range the less likely is accurate, humane shot placement. That's not to say impossible in the hands of an expert firing from a rock-solid position it's just that the probability diminishes. Granted, scoping the rifle will improve things but that goes counter to the lightweight levergun proposition.

With my rifle and my skill-set I will pass on any shot in excess of 125yds.

Lastly, the Hornady 300g XTP is a jacketed hollowpoint not cast and it is the most accurate load I've yet tested in my 1:38 Marlin.

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Good points regarding the wind, accuracy and knowing your limits.  That is one of the things I like about pistol cartridge carbines; its HUNTING not SHOOTING!

In my limited experience, I have never had to take a shot at big game longer than 100yds.  That is what has been leading me to iron sighted lever guns.  Still, the amateur ballistician in me makes me want to know where that bullet is going to be out to 200yds.  Hope for the best but prepare for the worst!

Incidently, the BC I gave for the .429", 300gr WFN-GC was based on published ballistics for the Federal Cast Core load.  Actually, my ballistics program came up with .218 as a BC based on the numbers provided.  Not having seen this load, I have made the assumption that they would be using what amounts to a WFN bullet profile to ensure stability.

Speaking of BC's, has anyone out there done any work to calculate BC's for the more popular Beartooth sizes, weights and designs?
 

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Kanuck:

You're right about Federal's CastCore. It's an LBT WFNGC made by Cast Performance. I'll re-run the BC numbers. I may have run them incorrectly. The number I got was way less than .2. Could be because I entered the separation distance as yards not feet.
 
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