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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all. Has anyone used Vihtavuori N530 for loading 7.62 x 51? The burn rate is between H4895 and IMR4895.
Available in some markets but in 8 lb. jugs. Any input on stability, velocity variance and metering will help me decide.
I had been using Varget, though it's unavailable most anywhere. Thanks.
 

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I've not used any of the Vihtavuori powders as of now. I still have plenty of IMR & H 4895 along with IMR3031.
If in the ball park as far as burn rates go and your staying in the ball park as far as loading for the M1A it should be fine.
You might check over at the M14fourm with those guys and see if any of them have used it.
 

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The Shadow (Moderator)
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Hello all. Has anyone used Vihtavuori N530 for loading 7.62 x 51? Any input on stability, velocity variance and metering will help me decide.

No info on suitability in a gas system, but if you have an adjustable gas block; that isn't really a concern.

I'm not a huge fan of how hot many of the Vhit powders burn, so I have never traced them in the 308. Short of having that info, it's almost impossible to actually know about temp stability in that application. As far as metering goes, it doesn't matter unless you refuse to let go of weight; quick and dirty explanation below.

Most folks who use a volume device, don't really use it as it's designed; they just want a 'cheat' to get a weight faster. That's fine if they want to do that, but not what it's for; and why most get upset with a particular device or powder.
Cutting kernels doesn't significantly affect how the powder behaves, and is of little consequence to the cause. As long as you can consistently throw a volume with a powder, cut or not doesn't matter. The longest powder I've ever encountered was Norma's URP, and while it sounds like cutting cabbage; the results are consistent. So I personally wouldn't worry about it.
Best of luck

Cheers
 

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Looking at VV's reloading data, with some 150-grain bullets 530 seems to produce velocities in the right range, but with other 150-grain bullets, the charge weight and velocities seem a little low, suggesting it is a little faster than military powders for the 7.62 NATO. Relative burn rate charts are developed with just one cartridge and bullet for relative comparison, so your chart could be different or be off for your actual application. These charts are just ballpark numbers. Nonetheless, I think you could try the powder out with 147 or 150-grain bullets and see how it works for you. Just use the lowest 150-grain bullet starting load on VV's charts and work up.

Cutting kernels doesn't significantly affect how the powder behaves, and is of little consequence to the cause. As long as you can consistently throw a volume with a powder, cut or not doesn't matter.
This is correct in the direct sense, but indirectly it also points to the problem with cutting powder grains. I've observed in my RCBS Uniflow that the charge thrown changes after every powder cutting event for the next charge or two. The slight jerk of the grain cutting causes the powder to settle in the hopper near the metering cavity feed point, making the next throw denser. If one is using a powder like Varget or 4064 that tends to burn a little slower when it is more densely packed, and thereby compensates some for the shift in the charge mass in your particular cartridge, it may not matter much. But not all powders behave that well in all cartridges, so it is something to keep an eye on as a potential source of irregular performance.
 

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The Shadow (Moderator)
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It's been too long since I was interested in check weighing a volume, to remember if my Lee suffers that issue or not. In all the pressure testing I've done, across several Lee PPM's, I don't see that it effects the pressure in any significant fashion(that is assuming that same problem exists in a Lee). So I think it might stem back to a conversation of weight Vs. Volume, and what the appropriate tool for the job is.

If someone lamented a "crescent wrench is junk because it slips, rounds nuts, or changes adjustment in a particular use", doesn't it seem the appropriate course of action is to just get the correct sized wrench for the job? Not to say one can't use a crescent wrench, or volume tool for weight; just that there are going to be inherent issues associated with using them for a particular task they aren't meant for. This also shouldn't be misconstrued as saying Volume is the only way to fly, just that the two systems are different.

Cheers
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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I thought the Lee powder measures had a 'wiper' of softer material, to keep them from cutting stick powders as bad?
 

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The Shadow (Moderator)
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Unless the brand newest ones have some sort of dedicated wiper, they've never had one before.

Just conical plastic holes, that align and allow powder to drop; when rotated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

No info on suitability in a gas system, but if you have an adjustable gas block; that isn't really a concern.

I'm not a huge fan of how hot many of the Vhit powders burn, so I have never traced them in the 308. Short of having that info, it's almost impossible to actually know about temp stability in that application. As far as metering goes, it doesn't matter unless you refuse to let go of weight; quick and dirty explanation below.

Most folks who use a volume device, don't really use it as it's designed; they just want a 'cheat' to get a weight faster. That's fine if they want to do that, but not what it's for; and why most get upset with a particular device or powder.
Cutting kernels doesn't significantly affect how the powder behaves, and is of little consequence to the cause. As long as you can consistently throw a volume with a powder, cut or not doesn't matter. The longest powder I've ever encountered was Norma's URP, and while it sounds like cutting cabbage; the results are consistent. So I personally wouldn't worry about it.
Best of luck

Cheers
Thank You.
 

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I've never used anything but IMR 3031 for the .308. My favorite load was 39 gr. of IMR 3031 with a Sierra 168 gr. Match bullet for competition and for hunting whitetail or black bear the same load with Hornady 165 gr. Spire Pt. in a LC case with standard CCI or Winchester LR primers
 

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The Lee PPM has the wiper. It was one of Lee's brags when it was first brought out: a wiper to stop grain cutting. Of my two Lee PPMs, one works perfectly that way, but the other fails part of the time. Both are much smoother operating with stick powders than either my RCBS Uniflow or my Redding BR-30. My Lee Deluxe metal version has the wiper, too, and it also works consistently like my better PPM. The wipers are thin strips of material mounted in the drum journal in the powder measure's body and are not on the drum. The drum has just a straight metering hole running into it.

That said, my JDS Quick Measure is the most consistent with stick powder of any of them. Never jerks on grains and never off by more than 0.2 grains when I've measured it. A bit more bother to adjust, though.
 

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The Shadow (Moderator)
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I'd love to see some pictures of a Lee wiper, I have no idea where it would go; doesn't exists on any of mine.:unsure:
I should be home at a reasonable time this evening, and will post pics of mine which don't have a wiper.

Cheers
 

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Hello all. Has anyone used Vihtavuori N530 for loading 7.62 x 51? The burn rate is between H4895 and IMR4895.
Available in some markets but in 8 lb. jugs. Any input on stability, velocity variance and metering will help me decide.
I had been using Varget, though it's unavailable most anywhere. Thanks.
Hello
For what it's worth in my Springfield Armory M1A1 with a 16 inch barrel


Moderator note
Welcome to the forum. This Sticky at the top of this forum has a required warning, if you plan on posting loads that many grains over vhit book max.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hello
For what it's worth in my Springfield Armory M1A1 with a 16 inch barrel.


Moderator note
Welcome to the forum. This Sticky at the top of this forum has a required warning, if you plan on posting loads that many grains over vhit book max.
Thanks Gunners Toys. Vihtavouri recommends N530 for 5.56 Nato, though nothing with a operating rod, hence my query here.
 

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N530 is in the burn rate of N133 to N140 which are acceptable for the M1 so should be acceptable for he M1A. I have N135 for use in the M1. Keep your bullets to 168-175 go or less and don’t try for velocities exceeding M80 (150gr) and M118LR (175gr).
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
N530 is in the burn rate of N133 to N140 which are acceptable for the M1 so should be acceptable for the M1A. I have N135 for use in the M1. Keep your bullets to 168-175 go or less and don’t try for velocities exceeding M80 (150gr) and M118LR (175gr).
Thank you. I have planned on using my Sierra 168Gr MK.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Consult Vihta Vuori. When I asked a similar question I was steered away from using propellants that were slower-burning than N140 in gas-auto service rifles.
Thanks Kosh7528. I concur with you on the use of Vihtavouri N140, all though I've used Varget in a pinch, in my M1A which is more tolerant than the M1 for slower powder. Vihtavouri N530 is listed, on the burn rate scale, between H4895 and Imr 4895. Vihtavouri has loads listed for NATO 5.56mm and .308 WIN, though not for 7.62 X 51mm service rifle.
I ordered a 8 lb. jug and if performance isn't up to snuff for 7.62 x 61mm it can be used in 5.59 X 45mm.
 

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The operating rods and absence (O.E.) of an adjustable gas port are the weak part of the M1 Garand rifle and the M1A derived from it. After market additions can broaden the burning rate range of powders which can be used in them, but I'm not sure of what the addition does to the accuracy of the rifle. The way that I shoot, I might never detect a difference. A top-echelon long range rifle competitor might detect it right away.
MY strategy with MY M1A is to use propellants with burn rates between those of IMR-3031 and IMR-4320, and check with the manufacturer if I've never before used a new propellant (as with VV N140), always being sure to specify the projectile weight that I intend to use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The operating rods and absence (O.E.) of an adjustable gas port are the weak part of the M1 Garand rifle and the M1A derived from it. After market additions can broaden the burning rate range of powders which can be used in them, but I'm not sure of what the addition does to the accuracy of the rifle. The way that I shoot, I might never detect a difference. A top-echelon long range rifle competitor might detect it right away.
MY strategy with MY M1A is to use propellants with burn rates between those of IMR-3031 and IMR-4320, and check with the manufacturer if I've never before used a new propellant (as with VV N140), always being sure to specify the projectile weight that I intend to use.
I understand where you're coming from when using the projectile and powder that serves your shooting regiment. Still waiting to get a reply from Vihtavouri.
 
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