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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guy's,

Hit the range agian with the 356 still haven't had any success with reloadss. The factory stuff 1-2 in @ 100yds all day. Speer 220's the third shot is is right at the x-hairs. the first one 4in high/ left, 2nd 2in high/left. This is with 2 different powder with 220's. Could be me, but my 35rem shoots all day without a hick-up. If I have to use factory stuff for this hunting season I might as well use my 35 rem. the ammo is cheaper and easier to get and I'm confident with it. If I have to laod the 356 with 200's what's the advantage over the 35rem? What pushes me even more over the edge is my marlin 1894 in 44mag shoots 3in groups open sighted @100yds and a joy to shoot. Maybe I should scope the mag for Pa deer/bear. Any thought's max shot 150yds?

Recap:
356 all over the place 220's (w748/Imr3031)
advantage 356win/factory (200gr) vs. 35rem factory(200gr)
35rem(200gr) vs. 44 mag(260+gr)


thanks
norville
 

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If you don't have time to work up the 356 by all means use your others. Don't push the handgun cartridge, go ahead and use the 35. You seem confident with it and it is an acceptable round out to a lot of folks out to 150 yds.
 

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Norville,
Could be your particular gun just doesn't like those Speer 220 gr heads. I've had good success with mine shooting them over 46.0 grs IMR 4064 for just over 2300 fps, with groups of three running 1-1 1/2". If the ole' smoke pole likes the 200gr heads, load them up ! You should be able to push them out in excess of 2400 fps, about 300 fps more than the .35 Rem. Although I have had a long love affair with the .35 Rem. Great efficient cartridge, with a lot of thump in a nice, neat package !
Your .44 carbine is also an excellent choice for woods hunting. I have no problem pushing mine to 1800 fps, with 270 gr Saeco FNGC homecast bullets. Another thumper ! You're probably like alot of us on the web, THE toughest decision to make during hunting season, is WHAT gun to carry. I personally take the approach of the major league baseball pitching coach and rotate thru my starting lineup. Some days are lever days, others feel like single shot days, and of course you can't forget the bolt guns. To me, carrying a beauty of a gun, or an old friend of one, is just part of the whole hunting experience. I probably spend almost as much time looking at some of my guns, as I do looking for the particular quarry that day.(not really, but it does make time pass during those slow periods of the hunt).
Too much rambling, I'm back ! Hope I helped you out some.
Jeff
What about cast for your .356 ? I've had excellent success with those, too. How about a 210gr head going about 2400fps ? With groups going about 1 1/2 "
 

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I concur with c-n-b, your particular carbine just doesn't like the Speer 220. You could try Hawk Bullets but they're a custom order proposition and I've heard they aren't the fastest for delivaries. Personally I'm not too hot for sub-.40 calibers with non-expanding bullets when hunting anything beyond antelope and small(er) whitetails. This is personal opinion only, some think they're just fine and have gotten good results. But I'm aware of a couple instances where cast FN .30-30's failed miserably on southwestern PA deer. I believe cast .35's wouldn't be a whole bunch better unless of a true WFN configuration. It's a shame the bullet situation is so bad for the .356. It's a good and useful round but projectile availability stinks. I think that's the main reason why the cartridge and guns were a failure in the marketplace.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
c-n-b is that 46 grains of Imr3031 over speer 220's what you are using? I'm only using 43 grains with no signs of pressure, maybe I should go a little higher. I couldn't locate any concrete data for this combination. I guess I still have some work to do with this before I trade it in for a marlin big bore.

2300fps with 220's sounds nice.

What's your recipe for 44mag?


Thanks
norville
 

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Norville-

Just a quick suggestion on the .356 with Speer 220's. Speer's #12 and #13 manuals list velocities over 2,300 fps with Accurate Arms 2015BR and CCI #200 primer. Just thought that you might be interested in checking that load out.
-Matt
 

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Bill,
I'm curious about what kind of failures you observed with the 30 caliber cast bullets. As you know I've been tinkering with the idea of using them for hunting, but reports like this make me nervous. Did the bullets break up, or did they simply fail to create a good enough wound channel? Do you know if they were cast very hard? Any details you can share would help point me in the right direction. Thanks, ID
 

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ID,

The knowledge I have is secondhand but from someone I consider to be a reliable source. The bullets were described as "flatnoses cast from straight wheelweights." What bullet mold I don't know. I have to assume the velocities were pretty much the same as comparable weight jacketed. The rifle was a Marlin 336 and the shots were taken under 175 yards in both cases. A buck was recovered but took three shots; reported as one in the lungs, one through the rear abdomen as it ran away and the third killing shot through a shoulder and into the chest. The first two shots perforated the deer while the third was heavily damaged from the contact with bone and was described as "the size of a .38." I took this to mean roughly half its original length. Later during the '01 doe season a single shot was unable to bring down an average speciman. Sadly she was not recovered.

Now all that said, I have to wonder about the true composition of those bullets. Wheelweights around 2000 fps at the muzzle should have shown at least some expansion and "shocking effect" at 150-175 yards. It sounds like they pretty much drilled through with little or no upset, excepting of course the shoulder shot on the buck. Even though I trust my source to say what he was told as fact, I really think they were cast harder than pure wheelweights. Nevertheless it has soured me to using small(er) bores and cast bullets for big game. To my way of thinking, why take the chance of losing game? Nostalgia and "doing it different" are great but I believe our game deserve a better, more humane end than those described above.
 

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Thanks for the info, Bill. As you probably recall I was thinking about carrying my Marlin 336A during the concurrent deer/elk season in October in one of the units I hunt, so was considering a hard cast bullet to ensure enough penetration for the elk but I've decided to just use the trusty 30-06 for that season, and if I still haven't gotten my deer by November I'll use the 30-30 during the deer-only season. I like to try new things but, like you, I'm not willing to trust the life of a magnificent creature to a questionable experiment. I'm going to use what I know works.
Also, on a less altruistic note, I'm going back to school this fall and money will be tighter than usual so I really NEED to get an elk and a deer this year! See you, ID
 
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