[Bird Dog II]

I like Marlin lever guns. Why wont they make a nice compact well made .454 Casull/.45 Colt like a certain overseas competitor has. You know the would sell like hotcakes! What is the deal? Is Marlin adverse to big sales? If ignoring this oppurtunity is some stupid ploy to promote their own calibers, well that is just dumb. I don't want a Marlin .308 or .444. I want a Marlin .454. Me and about 5 million other brush area deer hunters. What gives?

 

[Bucolic Buffalo]

The only ones that can give you an answer is Marlin. My guess is they haven't had a lot of request for it and in today's economy a lot of companies are ceasing product development to save money.

 

[Bird Dog II]

Well they are going to save money alright. If I want a big bore Marlin, I will buy a used one. Not much revenue in that for them. Now if they came out with a .454/.45 Colt carbine....

 

[MikeG]

They would have to build an entirely new gun to handle the .454, I suspect.

 

[William Iorg]

This has been tested and reported on on the Leverguns board.
Neither the Marlin 336 nor the Winchester Model 94 Big Bore rifles will handle th pressure and back thrust on the bolt of the 454. Both rifles failed quickly when tested.

 

[birdshot]

current actions may not hold up to the 454, but other actions will. what OP and i want is marlin to come up with something like the puma. we like marlin and we will buy a marlin.

 

[broom_jm]

I like Marlin lever guns. Why wont they make a nice compact well made .454 Casull/.45 Colt like a certain overseas competitor has. You know the would sell like hotcakes! What is the deal? Is Marlin adverse to big sales? If ignoring this oppurtunity is some stupid ploy to promote their own calibers, well that is just dumb. I don't want a Marlin .308 or .444. I want a Marlin .454. Me and about 5 million other brush area deer hunters. What gives?

If you want my opinion, the answer is two-fold: The cost of developing a beefier frame, and the simple truth that I think you might be over-stating the demand. The other cartridges you named (308 ME and 444) as well as numerous other offerings, such as the 35 Remington and good ol' 30/30, will do everything you could possibly ask of a brush gun, so what void would a .454 Casull, in a lever-action, really fill? It would be more of a good thing, I suppose, but "more" is not indicated, based on the historical success of existing brush cartridges.

It would be much like the 348 Winchester, 356, 358, etc, etc...a few people clamor for them, but fewer still will actually buy them, when they are offered. Plus, IF Marlin made the investment in such a gun, it would be noticeably larger/heavier than existing models, which might keep many would-be buyers from coughing up the money to purchase one. If you really want more than the power of a 444 lever-action, you can always shoot 3" slugs out of semi-auto 12 gauge or get a 35 Whelen pump gun. Lots of existing options.

A T/C Encore can be chambered in .454, with a carbine barrel. That would give you an easy carrying gun with some real authority, at woods ranges and allow you to shoot gentler 45LC rounds through it. Only thing missing would be that much-talked-about-but-rarely-relevant quick follow-up shot.

 

[Bird Dog II]

The other cartridges you named (308 ME and 444) as well as numerous other offerings, such as the 35 Remington and good ol' 30/30, will do everything you could possibly ask of a brush gun, so what void would a .454 Casull, in a lever-action, really fill?

I just want one. I think a lot of other folks would too. Marlin has appeal and so does that round. Americans pretty much invented lever guns and for sure the .454. If Puma/Rossi can do it, why can't Marlin? Have they invented some kind of magic pixie dust based metal in Brazil that Marlin can't use? I know at least three other guys who would gobble a Marlin .454 up if they had the chance.

 

[pruhdlr]

No Way Ho-Say

A T/C Contender CANNOT be chambered in 454 with ANY bbl. 65,000 psi...frame would go ka-blewie. -----pruhdlr

 

[BenT]

I do know it is said that Winchesters strongest designs were the 1886 and 1892 double locking lug. Which were stronger than Marlin designs, That is maybe why it works in the Rossi.

 

[William Iorg]

I agree the average shooter would have little idea of the recoil of a 454 carbine.
The 44 Magnum rifles rough me up considerably at the bench with heavy bullet loads. The 44’s are not so bad from the standing position. If you want to be pushed around both standing and at the bench shoot the iron sighted TC carbine in 44 Magnum with 250-grain or heavier bullets. The iron sighted TC carbine weighs less than 6 pounds and without a pad it is a handful.

Marlin Collector and John Kort started a thread about the 322-grain Lyman 457122HP bullet for the 45 Colt. My bullets come out nearly 40-grains heavier with my soft alloy and while the recoil is not too bad when fired from the bench; they do get your attention.

Personally I never gave a thought to the “cheeks” on the Winchester Big Bore rifles but they do come in for their fair share of criticism.

 

[broom_jm]

A T/C Contender CANNOT be chambered in 454 with ANY bbl. 65,000 psi...frame would go ka-blewie. -----pruhdlr

You're right, I meant to type in Encore and put in Contender, by mistake. I have corrected it.

 

[broom_jm]

I agree the average shooter would have little idea of the recoil of a 454 carbine.
The 44 Magnum rifles rough me up considerably at the bench with heavy bullet loads. The 44’s are not so bad from the standing position. If you want to be pushed around both standing and at the bench shoot the iron sighted TC carbine in 44 Magnum with 250-grain or heavier bullets. The iron sighted TC carbine weighs less than 6 pounds and without a pad it is a handful.

I have a T/C Contender carbine in 44Mag and with hot 240gr XTP's, I don't find the recoil bad at all, but then I grew up shooting stuff like the 180gr 30-'06 loads, so maybe it's all a matter of perspective. I do have an after-market stock with a shape that fits me well and a decent recoil pad. My 12 year-old daughter shoots it and while she doesn't like it as much as the Model '92 in 44/40 (200gr slugs) she isn't afraid of it in any way. Compared to the 12 gauge slugs and sabots a lot of guys hunt with in Indiana, that 44Mag is a *****-cat! Maybe it's all in my head, but I've never fired a pistol cartridge from a rifle and thought, "Gee, that kicks a lot". What is a "magnum" in a 6" barreled revolver is pretty mild, by rifle standards.

According to one recoil chart, a 44Mag carbine kicks about the same (~11lbs) as a 30/30 shooting 170gr bullets, which is to say, not very much, imho.

 

[Red Pepper]

The short answer is that Marlin actions are not strong enough to chamber the .454 Casull (I believe the Marlin actions are rated to around 45,000 psi vs. the 60,000 psi pressure levels of this cartridge). This is a potent round, loaded up to high powered rifle pressure levels (and it kicks like it, too). Rifles like the Puma in .454 and the new Big Horn Armory 89 in .500 S&W are based on Winchester 86/92 actions, with upgraded materials. Marlin would have to develop a new action to handle the round. It would probably have some measure of popularity here in Indiana, where we are limited to pistol cartridges in rifles, but I suspect the sales would not support the development. In most areas where hunters are not limited to pistol cartridges, the .45-70 will do the job just as well or better.

 

[pruhdlr]

My Carbine

I have owned a LSI/Rossi chambered in 454 Casull for some time now. The recoil with full power loads can be compared to the 444's and the med/hot loaded 45-70's(which I own both). My weapon has the 16" bbl and the weight is <6lbs. This makes the felt/precieved recoil pretty stiff. The muzzle rise is more than my 444 and 45-70 although they are both carbines as well.

BUT.....the weapons cannot be compared simply because the 454 is a "pistol" round. Being short, the action can be cycled faster and the mag can hold more ammo. Not wanting to start a "battle" with the "self defense against the larger bear" people around here,but I would much rather have my Casull strapped to my back with it's 8+1,than either of my other carbines mentioned above. It will simply deliver more FPE than either of the other two.

'Nuther but......I also would love to see either Marlin or Winchester(I personally would pick Marlin)come out with a "92 designed in 454,and 460 and 500 S&W Mag. If the beefier weapon would weigh in at 7 lbs that would be even better as far as somewhat dampening the effects of recoil.

Now lets see.......a Marlin with fair looking wood for $750 or the others for $1800 ?? I know which one I would pick. -----pruhdlr

 

[Bird Dog II]

I have owned a LSI/Rossi chambered in 454 Casull for some time now. The recoil with full power loads can be compared to the 444's and the med/hot loaded 45-70's(which I own both). My weapon has the 16" bbl and the weight is <6lbs. This makes the felt/precieved recoil pretty stiff. The muzzle rise is more than my 444 and 45-70 although they are both carbines as well.

BUT.....the weapons cannot be compared simply because the 454 is a "pistol" round. Being short, the action can be cycled faster and the mag can hold more ammo. Not wanting to start a "battle" with the "self defense against the larger bear" people around here,but I would much rather have my Casull strapped to my back with it's 8+1,than either of my other carbines mentioned above. It will simply deliver more FPE than either of the other two.

'Nuther but......I also would love to see either Marlin or Winchester(I personally would pick Marlin)come out with a "92 designed in 454,and 460 and 500 S&W Mag. If the beefier weapon would weigh in at 7 lbs that would be even better as far as somewhat dampening the effects of recoil.

Now lets see.......a Marlin with fair looking wood for $750 or the others for $1800 ?? I know which one I would pick. -----pruhdlr

Amen brother!

 

[EastTNHunter]

What will a .454 do that a 45/70 won't? Aside from shorter OAL (leading to shorter lever throw), the 45/70 has superior ballistic capabilities and versatility, as well as lower operating pressures, giving it every advantage in a rifle that already exists.

Just my .02, Ryan

 

[rwb]

Hold more ammo.

 

[Bird Dog II]

What will a .454 do that a 45/70 won't? Aside from shorter OAL (leading to shorter lever throw), the 45/70 has superior ballistic capabilities and versatility, as well as lower operating pressures, giving it every advantage in a rifle that already exists.

Just my .02, Ryan

Nobody is saying anything negative about a .45-70. Myself and a lot of people I know and have talked to would just like a .454 Marlin. I know some guys in Alaska that carry .454 sidearms and they would like a compatable carbine. I know plenty of guys in the midwest (I assume they exist in the south and east as well) who would like a .454 carbine by Marlin. Being familiar with both firearms and business, I am not buying that the re-tooling cost would keep them from making a profit. What has to be done to make a lever gun .454 capable is known. There is not profit without earning it. R&D, engineering, marketing, production. Are we ready to admit the Brazilians can do this better than Americans? There are plenty of fine looking used .45-70 and .444 Marlins at every gun store I go to. Those are 150 to 200 yd guns, so you are not worried about accuracy as much as you do a used bolt gun. MOA is not as critical. What I mean is, if you see a used .270 in a rack, you think "must not be an MOA shooter, or the owner would not have parted with it". That is not always true of course, but that is what you think. Not so, with a .45-70 or .444. They don't need to be MOA, because you are not looking to stretch them out. (No doubt I'm going to get responses about guys driving tacks at 350 yds with a .444 now - save it please). The bottom line is, revenue is there to be had for Marlin from folks like me pruhdlr in .454s.

.444s and .45-70s? Not so much. There are lots of good clean used ones.

 

[Combat Diver]

I can see your point as it would give near 45-70 performance with a lighter, shorter package that's understood and desireable. But as stated the Marlin 1894/1895 actions are not strong enough. Marlin would have to develop something new. Or how about a Savage 99 in .454, 460, or 500 S&W. I would send a letter to Marlin suggesting what you want.

CD