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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is there any collector's value to this ammo?

Box has MATCH printed on front with bald eagle in the middle.
45 Cal
Ball M1911
Lot RA 5053
230 Grains
Velocity 820
Remington

Just curious it has been in storage since 1965.It would be interesting to see if there is any collectors value to it.Thx.
 

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I'm the owner of about four boxes of this ammunition. The headstamp is also stamped MATCH and I'd be interested in the history of this ammunition. My guess is this is part of a huge lot of .45 ACP made to be fired at the National Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio. Have not heard of anything similar loaded after the 60's so believe this ammunition would be of interest to a military cartridge collector.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Match Ammo

My father-in-law back in the day was on the US Pistol team.He calls this ammon "Ball" ammo or "Hardball". Has more kick than conventional ammo. It was used primarily when shooting for a "Distinguished Medal".
 

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Thanks for your info regarding where this ammunition was used e.g. military pistol competition.

IIRC, the President's Match at Camp Perry consists of the NRA national match course shot with military ball ammunition and I have always suspected that the shooters were shooting something better than "issue". That could well be the same ammunition issued at the regional shoots where the shooters earn their Distinguished badges. I've never seen this ammunition offered for sale in any of the shooting publications so maybe this is a special loading that is not available to the public.

Perhaps some cartridge collector will show up, provide us a history, and give us an idea what this ammunition may be worth (not that I intend to sell mine).
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Match

Marshal I think you pretty well hit the nail on the head here.From what I've been told it was better than issue,packed more punch and very accurate.No and I have no intention of selling mine either.It would be interesting to see it's value.Thanks for the info.
 

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The Troll Whisperer (Moderator)
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Doctor17 - you don't have to start a new post for every comment or question. If you look in the lower right hand corner of the last post you make, you will see "edit" and "quote" icons. Click on the "edit" one and you may post additional info on the original post.
 

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Who ships ammo? I've been out of the loop for too long.
Cabela's, Graf & sons, Midway, Natchez Shooters Supply, etc. there's a whole bunch of shooter supply houses that will ship ammunition. Just be aware that there is a hazmat (hazardous materials) fee of $20 per order tacked onto your shipping bill so either order enough to make it worthwhile or purchase locally.

Or, are you going to ship ammunition? In which case, I have never tried this. Hope this answered your question.

I stand corrected re: $20 hazmat fee for shipping ammunition. The hazmat fee is tacked onto powder and primers (I hope I got THAT right) and the advice to order enough or purchase locally still stands.
 

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If your question, regarding shipping ammo, is what carrier can you use to ship ammo then the answer is UPS or FedEx... perhaps others... but not the United States Postal Service (Post Office). I have used UPS to ship small quanities of collectables and paid no hazmat fees for ammo. Just last week I ordered some shotgun shells from Cabela's and while they called it hazmat, they did not charge the extra $20 for shipping that they do for powder and primers. They did say, since they called it hazardeous material, they would not accept returns.

Some folks use the Post Office to ship ammo but it is listed as a no-no and I have heard of some being prosecuted for it. A lot of Gunbroker customers will ship in the mail. As a collector I buy off of that site and have gotten probably 50% of my stuff in the mail. The shipper assumes the liability, not the receiver, so to each his own. Mail is much cheaper than UPS until you have to pay a whopping fine.
 

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Ammo should be shipped with an ORM-D label, you can find a description somewhere on the internet. I have actually reused original ammo boxes to avoid having to make my own. Don't have any? Ask the gun store to save you a carton from their next shipment, as it comes to them on one carrier or another. If you bring in an ORM-D labeled box, that still has a common carrier sticker on it, it sort of deflates their knee-jerk claim "we can't ship that." :D

Ammo is not subject to the haz-mat fee, just bulk powder and primers.
 

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Mike got it. Neither ammo nor primed cases have hazmat fees. They just want that ORM-D label. I shipped my own ammo to arrive ahead of myself at Gunsite a couple of times, and proper (original is fine) packaging is all that's required. Like the airlines, they don't want it rattling loose.


Marshall and Doctor17,

You've almost got it right. Harball matches are separate from the wadcutter matches that are part of a 3-gun pistol 2700 point match. That old match hardball at 230 grains and 820 fps is actually less powerful than standard military hardball is now. Currently it is a 235 grain bullet at 885 fps. So that ammo is like old hardball, which was a 230 grain bullet over 5.0 grains of Bullseye and was so labled at one time on match ammo boxes between the WW's. The .45 ammo for the 2700 match uses a 185 grain semi-wadcutter over the equivalent of 4.2 grains of Bullseye, so it's a lighter load. That's what Doc's FIL meant by it kicking harder. Harder than match semi-wadcutters.
 

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. . .The .45 ammo for the 2700 match uses a 185 grain semi-wadcutter over the equivalent of 4.2 grains of Bullseye, so it's a lighter load. . .
Note: When the military teams showed up at our local 2700s, they brought along factory .45 ACP 185 gr. semi-wadcutter ammunition. Now I know where my tax dollars went as most of us civilians shot cast. For a time, they were instructed that they were there to focus on shooting and not to pick up their brass. I was fortunate to shoot alongside them once and made a killing picking up all that once-fired brass which did not help my scores one bit. Then the brass supply dried up as they were told to bring back the brass. End of an era.

You are all correct regarding the hazmat fee. Have changed my post accordingly. Thanks for setting me straight. Another senior moment.
 

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I'm the owner of about four boxes of this ammunition. The headstamp is also stamped MATCH and I'd be interested in the history of this ammunition. My guess is this is part of a huge lot of .45 ACP made to be fired at the National Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio. Have not heard of anything similar loaded after the 60's so believe this ammunition would be of interest to a military cartridge collector.
Just thought I'd put in a couple cents here. I have two full boxes of ACP match ammo which was made in 1973???. The white box Has 1973 on the top flap with MATCH printed in outlined block letters with a wings extended USA eagle over the match lettering.

Printed on the rear side of the box:
BALL M 1911
LOT WWC 20-4
BULLET 230 GRAINS
VELOCITY 820
OLIN CORPORATION

The cases are headstamped:
WWC 72 (yes 72)
MATCH
 

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. . . So Remington is not the only supplier of this special match ammunition. Odd that the box is printed 1973 while the ammunition is headstamped 1972 but things like that are what makes collectables. Thanks for your post.
 

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sevral points:

All military ammunition for 45 acp was called 'ball' ammo. another name was 'brown box'

military match ammo, 230 gr RN 45 acp, was a lesser speed load, alibeit more carefully loaded to increase accuracy, and was clearly marked 'not for combat use' many times called 'white box' most was used in Excellence in Competition 'Leg' matches as well as the President's Match and Leg matches(ind) as well as team matches.

the President's Match, President's 100, was(is) a 40 shot match, 2 ten shot targets, slowfire(ten shots in ten minutes) 1 10 shot timed fire( 2 five shot strings, 20 seconds per string) and 1 10 shot rapid( 2 five shot strings, 10 seconds per string). slowfire at 50 yards, 25 yards for timed fire and rapid fire.

prior to 1968 and the Kennedy clan gutting the DCM and military supported matches there were special runs of ammo, both rifle and pistol, for use at the National Matches at Camp Perry, for each year. 1968 also ended the ability of civilians to purchase National Match pistols built by the Rock Island Arsenal after attending the National Matches as state teams.

the runs of ammo would be marked with year in the headstamp, as are all military issue ammo runs. early years, 1911 - ???, were marked with month and year...FA 11 12 would be Frankfort Arsenal november 1912. wcc 72 means western cartridge company 1972. rifle example LC 69 means Lake City 1969

hope this helps
 
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