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Typically the amount taken off is comparable to bumping the shoulder back during regular resizing, some manufactures have very shallow cartridge headstamps and it doesn't even come close to removing it. I've never seen one that was very far out but have seen rims that not made correctly, primer pockets sitting lower than the outside rim.
 

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I originally started out building a 600 yard F class rifle and after considerable research decided on the 6.5x47 Lapua cartridge. A primary driving factor was the availability of Lapua brass, case neck length (which allows seating longer bullets out farther), the cartridge has a good reputation for accuracy and works in a magazine if desired.
After that initial endeavor I built a 6x47 and a 22x47Lapua. The rationale was all three can be formed from the 6.5x47 Lapua case without having to fireform.

Two of the rifles started out with donor Remington 700 short actions and a Rem 40 XBR action. All except the XBR (which has a trued action/bolt) were fitted with a PTG oversize one-piece stainless bolt with small firing pin and pinned Sako extractor. I then hand honed the bolt to where it was a smooth tight fit and had a gunsmith true the action.
The XBR bull barrel which was originally chambered for 22-250 was set back to accept the 22x47 and was kept at 1:14 twist.

The non XBR rifles are housed in a Stockeys’ LRT aluminum blocked stock and fitted with a Stockeys’ stainless Obendorph trigger guard and floor plate. Much thicker than the original (Fig 1). The XBR target stock was kept as original.
The 6.5x47 Lapua was tested using Lapua 123 Scenar L bullet; for the 6x47 Lapua first with a 105 grain Lapua Scenar and second using a 109 Berger and for the 22x47, a Bibb 52 grain FB was selected. A cut-off section of barrel from the XBR (Fig 2) was used to make a jig for the Bibb bullet to mark were it just kissed the lands. Most of this work was done prior to the powder/primer shortage.

All cases after trimming were turned around 180 degrees and the base was trimmed for high ridges and neck expanded using a Sinclair neck expander to produce 0.0015 neck tension with a seated bullet. Cases were loaded with a variety of powder charges and CCI BR4 primers.

Table 1 shows the results of the testing for all three rifles. Fig 3 provides an example 22x47 target.

Experience: Making the 6.0x47 brass was the easiest with just running the 6.5x47 brass through a 6.0x47 die. The 22x47 was the most intense by first running the 6.5 though a 6.0x47 die and then running that brass through a ‘S’ type die first using a 0.253 bushing followed by a 0.252 bushing. (Although I did read one article where a 0.257 bushing was used on the 6.5 case which I assume would reduce the working of the brass.)

After forming the 22x47 brass OAL was not uniform and had to be trimmed to length using a L.E., Wilson trimmer.
Having just one brass case that will function for all three rounds is a plus. Although, the 6.5 and 6.0 can be similar looking and care taken not to have a 6.0 loaded round placed into a 6.5 chamber. I load only one cartridge at time and shoot only one at a time at the range. To separate them further, a magic marker was used to place a black stripe on the base of the 6.0 round.

All three functioned well with CCI BR4 primers.

All three cartridges were not difficult to load and tune for and produced excellent accuracy.

All bullets tested performed best when seated 0.003 to 0.005 from the lands.

The 6.0x47 Lapua was particularly suited for the 109 Berger with it performing well with just about every powder evaluated. The 22x47 Lapua was well suited for the Bibb bullet with several powders producing excellent results.
The 6.5 and 6.0 x 47 functioned in a magazine. The 22x47 XBR was kept as a single shot.
Huge thank you. Trying to start process of learn long range precision rifle shooting. Built 6x47 L use a 1975ish REM 700 action from a .22-250 BLD I owned, trued the action, Bartlein barrel, XLR chassis. Cannot seem to find range time for first firing of reformed 6.5x47 L brass, sight in, final brass prep and load development. Planning on 105 or 109 Berger BT target or BT VLC for starting bullets/load development.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Just curious, how much "squaring" would be expected? A few thousandths?

Is there any point at which you say..... that one's just too crooked, and toss it?
The squaring does not require removing a lost of brass. A few thousands at the most. I have noticed that for the most part most of the removal comes near the outside of rim and not inward toward the primer pocket. I have not had to toss any brass because it was way out of 'near square.'
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Howdy Merbeau. To Clarify, you had a gun smith true the action? Is this to mean blueprinted? Does the case head need truing after all the sizing? After truing the case heads, I would think, you'd have to go over the primer pockets to make sure they're all the same depth. I've only read that someone trues-up the case head; never known anyone who actually does. Seems that you have experience handloading and have decided to enter a different dimension of shooting.
At what distance did you shoot the group you posted?
Regards,
CJR50
The group shot that I originally posted with the 22x47 was at 100 yards which is the distance I typically shoot this rifle. I have enclosed two other photos, one with IMR 8208 at 100 yards and another with the 6.5x47 that I shot in a 600 yard local match. Please be aware that this target is huge to begin with and in order to make a thumb nail image it had to be reduced dramatically. Conditions for this shoot were excellent with temp at 57, wind 3 mph, humidity 42%, pressure 30.24 and slightly overcast sky. Elevation was 810 feet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Huge thank you. Trying to start process of learn long range precision rifle shooting. Built 6x47 L use a 1975ish REM 700 action from a .22-250 BLD I owned, trued the action, Bartlein barrel, XLR chassis. Cannot seem to find range time for first firing of reformed 6.5x47 L brass, sight in, final brass prep and load development. Planning on 105 or 109 Berger BT target or BT VLC for starting bullets/load development.
Sounds like a shooter. Either Berger hybrid is fine. The VLC bullets are seating depth sensitive, much more so than their hybrids. I always start at the lands. I do not go into the lands. If you have to remove the bolt it could stick in the refiling and then powder spills all over. If you have the schematic from Bartlein check the neck diameter and order a neck sizing die 0.001 less. In the case of my 22x47 that was 0.253 so I ordered a 0.252. Two things, make sure the neck diameters are the same and in my experience some will have to be thrown out. And at 1.25 dollars per piece of Lapua brass that hurts but will help in consistency. Also check neck tension. For bolt action rifle you can have less than if it is a semi auto. My 22x47 liked 0.001 whereas the 6 and 6.5 like 0.002. Lastly when seating your bullet start the bullet initially into the case and then rotate it 180 degrees to finish the seating. That way runout, if any, will be kept at a minimum. Sounds a little anal but if you are shooting for score 0.1 inch can make a huge difference.
 

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The group shot that I originally posted with the 22x47 was at 100 yards which is the distance I typically shoot this rifle. I have enclosed two other photos, one with IMR 8208 at 100 yards and another with the 6.5x47 that I shot in a 600 yard local match. Please be aware that this target is huge to begin with and in order to make a thumb nail image it had to be reduced dramatically. Conditions for this shoot were excellent with temp at 57, wind 3 mph, humidity 42%, pressure 30.24 and slightly overcast sky. Elevation was 810 feet.
Thank you for your reply. CJR50
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Mike, I can't answer your question, but am responding because of a related topic that has not yet been addressed.
Obviously, removing any amount of material from the back end of the case will have headspace implications. As such, the process begs the question; Does one remove the same amount of material from all cases to result in a common headspace affect and required 'adjustment', or do you remove just the amount required to square the cases on an individual basis, resulting in a variable headspace condition? Does one account for correcting the headspace by fireforming the cases using a false neck sizing or jamming the bullet into the rifling using a 'standard cut chamber'? Or, does one prep. a large quantity of cases identically and then cut the chamber to the resulting headspace requirement? Just thinking out loud about the varying possibilities.
My procedure is only to do the squaring one time and I do all cases at once. After brass has been sized starting off with the die set as typically recommended by the manufacturer it is then trimmed to length and then squared. I then use a case set back gauge (see attached photo) that holds the case and then the shoulder is set back by 0.0015 inches. I double check by removing the firing pin from the bolt, insert a case into the chamber and let the bolt handle fall. If it falls freely half way down I consider that good. Only thing after that cycle is to trim if the cases stretch and but keep the set back setting. I typically will fireform a new case using cast bullets. Much less powder and saves the barrel. Especially on the 6.0 and 22x47 rifles where barrel life is much less than the 6.5x47 cartridge.
Mike, I can't answer your question, but am responding because of a related topic that has not yet been addressed.
Obviously, removing any amount of material from the back end of the case will have headspace implications. As such, the process begs the question; Does one remove the same amount of material from all cases to result in a common headspace affect and required 'adjustment', or do you remove just the amount required to square the cases on an individual basis, resulting in a variable headspace condition? Does one account for correcting the headspace by fireforming the cases using a false neck sizing or jamming the bullet into the rifling using a 'standard cut chamber'? Or, does one prep. a large quantity of cases identically and then cut the chamber to the resulting headspace requirement? Just thinking out loud about the varying possibilities.
 

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The squaring does not require removing a lost of brass. A few thousands at the most. I have noticed that for the most part most of the removal comes near the outside of rim and not inward toward the primer pocket. I have not had to toss any brass because it was way out of 'near square.'
Hmm, sounds like most of the 'out of square' condition of the head is due to the rim possibly being deformed slightly in the case-forming process.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Sounds like a shooter. Either Berger hybrid is fine. The VLC bullets are seating depth sensitive, much more so than their hybrids. I always start at the lands. I do not go into the lands. If you have to remove the bolt it could stick in the refiling and then powder spills all over. If you have the schematic from Bartlein check the neck diameter and order a neck sizing die 0.001 less. In the case of my 22x47 that was 0.253 so I ordered a 0.252. Two things, make sure the neck diameters are the same and in my experience some will have to be thrown out. And at 1.25 dollars per piece of Lapua brass that hurts but will help in consistency. Also check neck tension. For bolt action rifle you can have less than if it is a semi auto. My 22x47 liked 0.001 whereas the 6 and 6.5 like 0.002. Lastly when seating your bullet start the bullet initially into the case and then rotate it 180 degrees to finish the seating. That way runout, if any, will be kept at a minimum. Sounds a little anal but if you are shooting for score 0.1 inch can make a huge difference.
I also tried Lapua 77 grain bullet and Berger 88 grain FB target bullet. I could not get the 77 Lapua to shoot. I believe the 1:8 twist was to fast for this bullet. I did, however, find a load with the 88 Berger in 38 grains of IMR 4451.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Hmm, sounds like most of the 'out of square' condition of the head is due to the rim possibly being deformed slightly in the case-forming process.
Could be; but placing a square edge on the rim's you can definitely see a gap.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Sounds like a shooter. Either Berger hybrid is fine. The VLC bullets are seating depth sensitive, much more so than their hybrids. I always start at the lands. I do not go into the lands. If you have to remove the bolt it could stick in the refiling and then powder spills all over. If you have the schematic from Bartlein check the neck diameter and order a neck sizing die 0.001 less. In the case of my 22x47 that was 0.253 so I ordered a 0.252. Two things, make sure the neck diameters are the same and in my experience some will have to be thrown out. And at 1.25 dollars per piece of Lapua brass that hurts but will help in consistency. Also check neck tension. For bolt action rifle you can have less than if it is a semi auto. My 22x47 liked 0.001 whereas the 6 and 6.5 like 0.002. Lastly when seating your bullet start the bullet initially into the case and then rotate it 180 degrees to finish the seating. That way runout, if any, will be kept at a minimum. Sounds a little anal but if you are shooting for score 0.1 inch can make a huge difference.
So many questions may have not answered the first part but yes truing means blueprinted.
 

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In the late 1980's I built two rifles, a DGA and a blueprinted Rem. 700 (for hunter class BR), for my own 'wildcat'. I based it on a 7mm IHMSA and slightly shortened the case to 45mm., and called it 7mm x 45 Int. Back then, I had to resort to forming the cases from Remington 300 Savage cases. I had to sort out 500 cases into lots, by wall thickness variations of .001". When Lapua introduced the 6.5 x 47, and cases became available, I bought 20 cases just to see how the 'premium cases' would form up and perform. The 6.5 x 47 Lapua is just about as close to a 'dead ringer' to my 7mm x 45 Int. as you could find. Mine has the 38 degree shoulder of the IHMSA series and slightly different case diameters, but so close it hard to tell. Because of that, the forming is a much easier task than with 308 or 300 Savage parent cases. The DGA was a full out heavy BR class rifle that was intended to be the 'test platform' for the 7mm benchrest bullets (90 to 120 grains flat base) I was making for my Hunter Class 700.
So yeah, in my experience too, the 6.5 x 47 Lapua case seems to be an excellent platform for very usable and accurate cartridges when combined with any number of bullet diameters.
 
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