NE Pa deer running thin?
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I think the deer herd is running thin across the entire state. I live in Lancaster county and my local state rep said his number one complaint from his constituents is the lack of deer!
I've got a small group that feeds behind my house every night, and I had a nice buck pass through the yard a few times, but otherwise haven't seen too many this year (and none at all while in the field).
I've got a small group that feeds behind my house every night, and I had a nice buck pass through the yard a few times, but otherwise haven't seen too many this year (and none at all while in the field).
this has been what a lot of western pa except washington, greene and allegheny counties have been experiencing for a few years. in the area i hunt underbrush is up, acorns are like marbles and overall an abundance of food and all i hear is i am just not getting far enough away from the crowds. well i hunt about 13 miles from nearest hard road. i see only a few deer each year (less than 5).
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Ive hunted the Pocono region of NEPA for 36 years and nowadays in the spot I hunt (Lackawanna county) the deer herd has dropped drastically since the commish started the two week deer season. I thought this past year would have been the last for that, but it's still two weeks! Just north of me they cut it back to one week.
Deer Population Eruption
You had a deer population eruption that was creating problems so your game commission took steps to control the herd before they destroyed their habitat.In college at the University of Arizona our game biology instructor took our class to the Chiricahua NF in the 1960's to show us the devastation from a mule deer population eruption.There was no forage left ,everything was eaten as high as a deer could reach standing on their hind legs,deer died off from all causes called an epizootic so there were few deer left. We could see thru the forest as there weren't any ,shrubs,etc left.Exclosures designed to keep cattle out but let deer and other foragers in were virtualy barren while exclosures designed to keep all browsers out were lush with forage plants.
You had a deer population eruption that was creating problems so your game commission took steps to control the herd before they destroyed their habitat.In college at the University of Arizona our game biology instructor took our class to the Chiricahua NF in the 1960's to show us the devastation from a mule deer population eruption.There was no forage left ,everything was eaten as high as a deer could reach standing on their hind legs,deer died off from all causes called an epizootic so there were few deer left. We could see thru the forest as there weren't any ,shrubs,etc left.Exclosures designed to keep cattle out but let deer and other foragers in were virtualy barren while exclosures designed to keep all browsers out were lush with forage plants.
The deer population in PA is at a low point, lowest it has been in my memory having hunted since 1960. Part of the problem is that areas that are not huntable- posted land and suburb areas, have a population that is unmanagable. These areas play havoc to automobile drivers and have a problem with Lyme disease carrying ticks. The resul;t is that insurance companies lobby to have the deer population drastically reduced. The Pa. Game Comm. issues multiple licenses to hunters to harvest deer. The result is that in huntable areas deer population becomes low and nonhuntable areas remain a problem. The problem in Pennsylvania is political, not environmental.
well said, sir, well said!
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304 Posts
actualy the legislature and politititions have very little control over the pa. game commission.
it is an independent body, which is a good thing.
that said, the governor does appoint members to a 5 person commission whos job it is to oversee the operation.
basicly they are just head nodders, as the decisions are made by the full time people. that would be the exectutive director and on down the line.
the problems pa. face is similar in other areas of the country.
pa. used to be one of the top 3 states in the country for licence sales.
today it is still a leader but sales are about half what they were 25 years ago.
mainly due to lack of interest in younger people.
since license sales are way down, revenues must be generated by whatever means in order to keep the ship afloat.
doe license sales have been one of those means.
i started hunting in 1947 at age 12 in north central pa.
the first doe season i can remember happened in the early 50s. its been pretty much a yearly thing ever since.
weve been complaining about lack of deer in n/c pa. for at least 25 years.
large scale meetings have been held with all the top brass of the commission in attendence.
essentually we were told we didnt know what we were talking about.
now its a statewide problem and all **** is breaking loose.
yet there are still those like one of the posters here who blame it on overbrowsing.
that of coarse is sheer b.s.
what needs to be done will never happen, just as it wont happen in our political situation.
we need to go down to the headquaters in harrisburg and tell all with authority there to clean out their desk now.
over the years many organizations have been originated for the benefit of a purpose or cause. unions for example.
over time some of them continue to exist for the benefit of the organization and its employees.
it seems that is the case with the pa. game commission.
it is an independent body, which is a good thing.
that said, the governor does appoint members to a 5 person commission whos job it is to oversee the operation.
basicly they are just head nodders, as the decisions are made by the full time people. that would be the exectutive director and on down the line.
the problems pa. face is similar in other areas of the country.
pa. used to be one of the top 3 states in the country for licence sales.
today it is still a leader but sales are about half what they were 25 years ago.
mainly due to lack of interest in younger people.
since license sales are way down, revenues must be generated by whatever means in order to keep the ship afloat.
doe license sales have been one of those means.
i started hunting in 1947 at age 12 in north central pa.
the first doe season i can remember happened in the early 50s. its been pretty much a yearly thing ever since.
weve been complaining about lack of deer in n/c pa. for at least 25 years.
large scale meetings have been held with all the top brass of the commission in attendence.
essentually we were told we didnt know what we were talking about.
now its a statewide problem and all **** is breaking loose.
yet there are still those like one of the posters here who blame it on overbrowsing.
that of coarse is sheer b.s.
what needs to be done will never happen, just as it wont happen in our political situation.
we need to go down to the headquaters in harrisburg and tell all with authority there to clean out their desk now.
over the years many organizations have been originated for the benefit of a purpose or cause. unions for example.
over time some of them continue to exist for the benefit of the organization and its employees.
it seems that is the case with the pa. game commission.
Hunting has always been about Ethics, and Morals. The PA Game Commission does their job, the hunting population has to do theirs. If there isn't a lot of Does around, don't shoot Does. Finding some decent Bucks? Go ahead and hunt one. You have to make your own management decisions if you want to be successful year after year. The deer population is going to cycle just like anything else, there's too many factors to add together to expect a deer behind every tree year after year. I expect to be successful every year cause I count on the meat, and we take as many deer as we can use. I have four hunters in the family, we'll rarely take two bucks, and then one of those better be a "trophy". We'll usually take two does if there's enough around. If there aren't what we consider enough around, I'll travel to scout an area where there is, and I'll take one there. I haven't had a problem finding deer yet. Some years different areas seem a little thin, but there's lots of places to hunt in NE PA, or even North Central PA, if you get out there and hunt!
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304 Posts
were not talking about places to hunt. were talking about lack of game, specificaly deer in lots of those areas.
the hunting part is as good as ever, however the taking part has diminished greatly.
the land available for hunting hasent changed in many areas. certainly not in the n/c area.
does anybody remember what a pheasant looks like?
it used to be they were like chickens in many parts of the state.
the game commission will tell you loss of habitat is a major cause of their decline.
that may be true in some areas, but its a lame excuse for the problem as a whole.
the money used for the pheasant program was considerable, and can be put to better use, like salaries and benefits.
many hunters only hunted small game, specificaly rabbits and pheasants. now they dont hunt at all.
take a ride through n/c pa. during the first week of buck season. count the camps that arent even occupied. stop and talk to local business owners and see what they think.
yes a person in good physical condition can still hunt and have a good chance of getting a deer.
that is if their willing to take a doe, or the first legal buck they see.
archers are a little better off as they can hunt in areas off limits for rifles. hit and run if you will.
apperently thats good enough for much of the modern generation.
the hunting part is as good as ever, however the taking part has diminished greatly.
the land available for hunting hasent changed in many areas. certainly not in the n/c area.
does anybody remember what a pheasant looks like?
it used to be they were like chickens in many parts of the state.
the game commission will tell you loss of habitat is a major cause of their decline.
that may be true in some areas, but its a lame excuse for the problem as a whole.
the money used for the pheasant program was considerable, and can be put to better use, like salaries and benefits.
many hunters only hunted small game, specificaly rabbits and pheasants. now they dont hunt at all.
take a ride through n/c pa. during the first week of buck season. count the camps that arent even occupied. stop and talk to local business owners and see what they think.
yes a person in good physical condition can still hunt and have a good chance of getting a deer.
that is if their willing to take a doe, or the first legal buck they see.
archers are a little better off as they can hunt in areas off limits for rifles. hit and run if you will.
apperently thats good enough for much of the modern generation.
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304 Posts
cvc944, you are absolutly correct on several issues.
first off the term managment is a joke for the most part. the only manager is mother nature.
success or failure is determined by the severity of the winter, and the food supply to carry them through it.
the only control the so called experts have is controlling the season legnth and issueing more or less licences.
for the most part that dosent change much as the budget controls license sales more than anything.
the bear population is controlled by the ammout of bears shot. seasons like last year for example, where it rained every day theres lots of carryover.
whats that got to do with managment?
speaking of that, for years gary ault was looked upon as the savior of the bear population. the fact is nature was the savior and not gary ault.
he didnt last long managing the deer herd did he.
back in the early 50s we never saw turkeys. now they are in every part of the state.
that has much more to do with the turkeys than it does good managment.
as for your comment on access, again you are right on target.
we have a very large out of control agency known as the dcnr.
large areas are essentially inaccessable to many of us due to gates.
there are hundreds of gates in n/c pa. essentually keeping the land owners (taxpayers) off their own land.
its not uncommon to see 5 or 6 dcnr vehicles every day during the season. many with 4 wheelers in the back.
dont get caught driving around a gate, and many guys are.
if you stop by a regional dcnr office and inquire as to why the gates arent open at least during hunting season. be prepared to get some smiling young person tell you well sir you can still hunt there. you just cant drive back in there and we think thats as it should be.
dont bother to explain that you hunted there before they were born, and now your 75 and cant walk that far anymore.
there is no valid reason for the gates other than the fact its cheaper to gate the roads than it is to maintain them.
of coarse all the dcnr employees have keys and many of them hunt.
first off the term managment is a joke for the most part. the only manager is mother nature.
success or failure is determined by the severity of the winter, and the food supply to carry them through it.
the only control the so called experts have is controlling the season legnth and issueing more or less licences.
for the most part that dosent change much as the budget controls license sales more than anything.
the bear population is controlled by the ammout of bears shot. seasons like last year for example, where it rained every day theres lots of carryover.
whats that got to do with managment?
speaking of that, for years gary ault was looked upon as the savior of the bear population. the fact is nature was the savior and not gary ault.
he didnt last long managing the deer herd did he.
back in the early 50s we never saw turkeys. now they are in every part of the state.
that has much more to do with the turkeys than it does good managment.
as for your comment on access, again you are right on target.
we have a very large out of control agency known as the dcnr.
large areas are essentially inaccessable to many of us due to gates.
there are hundreds of gates in n/c pa. essentually keeping the land owners (taxpayers) off their own land.
its not uncommon to see 5 or 6 dcnr vehicles every day during the season. many with 4 wheelers in the back.
dont get caught driving around a gate, and many guys are.
if you stop by a regional dcnr office and inquire as to why the gates arent open at least during hunting season. be prepared to get some smiling young person tell you well sir you can still hunt there. you just cant drive back in there and we think thats as it should be.
dont bother to explain that you hunted there before they were born, and now your 75 and cant walk that far anymore.
there is no valid reason for the gates other than the fact its cheaper to gate the roads than it is to maintain them.
of coarse all the dcnr employees have keys and many of them hunt.
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