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Discussion Starter #1
A friend is thinking of purchasing a .264 Win. Mag. in model 70 XTR, 24 inch barrel. The wood is 70 per cent, and the nore is bright with well defined rifling. What about this caliber...good...bad? Recoil? Usefulness...elk, mule deer, whitetail? The man from whom he may buy it is asking &#36395. Any information is appreciated.

Thanks,
Timberwolf
 

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Hi Timberwolf,
     First off I wouldn't pay that much for a M70 XTR in that condition, unless it has a REALLY nice scope on it. But, to answer your questions about the .264.
     It's a good cartridge but burns throats pretty quickly. If the previous owner has shot it a lot that could be an issue. Barrel length? He will still be able to get pretty good velocity with a 24", though not up to the old advertised velocities. If the throat is okay and slow powder like IMR7828 is used he should be able to get somewhere over 3000fps with a 140 gr boolit.
      Game? A friend in Utah uses his on everything up to elk and is totally satisfied. He uses partition boolits.
       Recoil depends on how the rifle fits the shooter, but is similar to 7 mag or stout 30-06.
    Hope this helps!      ID
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply IDshooter. I just contacted Joe and he said the scope on the rifle is a Leupold III 2.5x8. He indicated the scope has scratches on it and looks quite rough. Is there any way to test the erosion of the throat if no throat guage is available? Someone once said that inspection of the bolt face (I think?) will usuallt indicate throat wear. Is this far fetched?

Hope to hear from someone soon,
TIMBERWOLF
 

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Timberwolf,
       Inspecting the bolt face will tell you nothing about the throat. You may or may not be able to see some darkening in the throat area if you look into the bore from the breech end. I have seen this on a 7mm Mag. The throat just didn't look as shiny as the rest of the bore. Apparently if you look at a worn throat with a bore scope it looks like alligator skin, but I've not had the priviledge to try this. :biggrin: Really, if in doubt at all about the condition of this rifle I would pass on it. It's a not-very-common caliber and it doesn't seem like a very good deal to me. I have seen M70 XTR's in like new condition with a Leupold 2X7 scope sell for &#36400, some in gently used condition go for &#36350 or so in my area. I keep a pretty close eye on the shops in town!    ID
PS- I guess I should mention that rifle prices in general seem to be lower here than in many parts of the country, based on what I've seen on the internet. So the price I would be willing to pay may be a little lower than in other locales. I guess that's up to your friend!

(Edited by IDShooter at 8:54 pm on Sep. 17, 2001)
 

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TIMBERWOLF

If the 264 looks ok after a bore inspection go for it.  I have one that I purchased in 1986 and it shoots quite good and has no visual bore problems.  The writers in the gun rags gave the 264 a bad name several years ago and saddled it with the label of being a bore eater.  I have always wondered what Winchester did to tork these guys off so.  They have never laid the same problem at the feet of all of the other high intensity rounds such as the 7mm Rem mag, all of the Weatherby's, good Lord look at the 30-378 and not a word about bore washout.  All of the high intensity rounds will washout the bore of their respective guns if one just sits and fires round after round through a hot barrel.  But guess what very few do so.  Hornady tells you in their reloading manual they ruined several barrels in the 264 while developing their loads.  What about the 257 Weatherby?  Not a note about it.  It is probably potentially worse than any of the others.  Like I said Winchester sure hacked someone off regarding the 264.  It got a black eye that hasn't gone away yet.  Yet, it is still one of the flattest shooting and deadliest rounds around.  It sure makes a great bean field rifle.  I wouldn't trade for mine.  It delivers the bacon time after time.  There is something about that long skinny 140 gr bullet that electrifies most game up to and including elk.

If I liked this round I might write some more about it.

Bill
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks PunkinChunker,
  Do you think the 24 inch barrel will cause substantial loss of velocity, and put the .264 on the level with the 7mm Mag? Should my friend try to find one with a 26 inch tube to get the best possible velocity, etc.? What, in your judgment is the reason the .264 seems to almost unanimously get bad press? Was it competing with some cartridge in its beginning that 'teed off' gun writers? I'm puzzled. Hope to hear from you ASAP.

Timberwolf
 

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TIMBERWOLF

I'm not sure why the reason for the black look given to the 264 but recall it came out during the same time Winchester reworked and nearly destroyed the M70.  This could have had something to do with it.  

My M70 264 is in 24".  Taking 2 inches off  will have some effect on velocity.  The 264 will never be a 7mm mag.  It is a smaller round it is half way between the 243 and 7mm in size.  It's chief competitor is the 270.  In my opinion it beats the 270 hands down.  For example in the 264 the 140 grain bullet is optimal.  The B.C. for the 140 gr Hornady A-Max is .550 while the 270 130 grain bullet is.460.  The difference  equates to quite a lot in flatness of trajectory and retained velocity and energy.  That is why the 264 makes such a bean field gun.  Another thing which the higher B.C. does for the 264 is assures greater depth of penetration.  This comes into play when one uses it on game such as elk.  Now don't get me wrong I am not suggesting the 264 as being optimal for elk.  But, it has been used successfully for elk size game.  For mule/whitetail deer prairie goat type game there is nothing better.

I happen to think it is just about the cats meow.  I don't use it all the time.  Sometimes I use the 300 wm sometimes I use the 243.  Sometimes the 30-06.  I really like the 45-70 and 444 marlin.  I guess one would say I am quite catholic in my choices of hunting weaponry.

BCNU

Bill
 

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New In The Box .264 Win Mag

Hi, I still have a few New .264 Win Mag. Rifles in stock. If you are still looking for one feel free to contact me back. Thanks, Steve.
Punkinchunker said:
TIMBERWOLF

I'm not sure why the reason for the black look given to the 264 but recall it came out during the same time Winchester reworked and nearly destroyed the M70.  This could have had something to do with it.  

My M70 264 is in 24".  Taking 2 inches off  will have some effect on velocity.  The 264 will never be a 7mm mag.  It is a smaller round it is half way between the 243 and 7mm in size.  It's chief competitor is the 270.  In my opinion it beats the 270 hands down.  For example in the 264 the 140 grain bullet is optimal.  The B.C. for the 140 gr Hornady A-Max is .550 while the 270 130 grain bullet is.460.  The difference  equates to quite a lot in flatness of trajectory and retained velocity and energy.  That is why the 264 makes such a bean field gun.  Another thing which the higher B.C. does for the 264 is assures greater depth of penetration.  This comes into play when one uses it on game such as elk.  Now don't get me wrong I am not suggesting the 264 as being optimal for elk.  But, it has been used successfully for elk size game.  For mule/whitetail deer prairie goat type game there is nothing better.

I happen to think it is just about the cats meow.  I don't use it all the time.  Sometimes I use the 300 wm sometimes I use the 243.  Sometimes the 30-06.  I really like the 45-70 and 444 marlin.  I guess one would say I am quite catholic in my choices of hunting weaponry.

BCNU

Bill
 
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