[JBelk]

Just for the record- (chapter 19), the "Contender" has a different and dangerous trigger arrangement than the later Encore.
Under one very specific circumstance, a Contender can shoot you in the chest. All seven I know of were fatal.

 

[JBelk]

BillT-- I assume you have a Contender to try to see what happens.
This is not all the story but covers the mechanics of it. Chapter 19 "Unsafe by Design" covers it better.

All seven victims were carrying a Contender in the shoulder holster that was sold for that gun. All seven bent over to move a rock or pick up wood or in one case, another gun. The Contender falls from the holster and the butt hits the ground hard enough to RELEASE the passive safety block. Once the block is released, the hammer can fire the gun by impact of any kind.

TEST--- With the gun reset by opening the barrel and then closing, gently pull the hammer back slowly until you hear a slight click. That is the safety block falling out of the way and removing the block in path to the firing pin. NOW, anything that hit the hammer also hits the firing pin. The hammer hits the ground just after the butt and fires the gun while it's pointed straight at you.

T-C was sold because a fraud was committed on the Court in some of these cases and the judge came down very hard on the owner.

 

[JBelk]

I don't THINK the court records are sealed or under protective order. I didn't sign a protective order when I worked one of the cases that was scheduled to be re-tried in Boise and did some prototype work on several guns. Then I was notified all the cases had been concluded. That must have been in the late '90s.
Read the story. There's much more to it. I've SEEN the two video tapes in question.

 

[JBelk]

"Emotionally invested"?? I'm answering a question with the facts as I know them. Is that somehow offensive to you?

What I was told by the lawyer that hired me---A Federal judge somewhere forced the owner of T-C (You can look up his name) to divest himself of ALL firearms related businesses, pay monstrous fines and is prohibited from being in the firearms business in the future. It was my understanding, he got away very lightly. The alternatives involved hard jail time.

FWIW--The shop I started in suffered losses by theft of an employee. During the time of investigating what was gone, ATF found enough irregularities in the books that all three owners were given the same treatment by a judge. Divestiture, prohibited from the gun business, fines and years of probation. A good friend of mine bought the shop and I ran it for him for a year after that.

Fraud on a Federal Court is one of the very few crimes that does NOT have a statute of limitations or repose. A judge can grab you YEARS down the road and make you pay in a BIG way. Don't EVER lie to a judge!! There's a lawyer in Texas now that lied on Ozero's immigration program in really big trouble. Even F. Lee Bailey was disbarred and prohibited from practicing law due to misbehavior.

 

[JBelk]

Your Encore is a totally different action using a different safety system.

One of my everlasting gripes and one of the reasons I wrote my books is that gun companies don't have to tell their customers when a gun is FOUND to be defective. They just quietly go away. That's exactly what happened to the T-C Contender. They introduced a new model and extolled its many virtues but are not required to say a word about what is a SERIOUS defect in the Contender which was dropped from manufacture.

The lesson to take away is this--- The Contender sets a passive safety that keeps the hammer away from the firing pin UNTIL the hammer is cocked part way. At that point, the safety is disengaged but is not RE-engaged until the action is broken open again. SO, if you almost get a shot, but let the hammer down and try to sneak closer, the gun is UN-SAFE in a big way until you break it open to reset the safety block . It differs greatly from other handguns and rifles in that regard.

 

[JBelk]

I'm still heading the range with a Contender this afternoon like I always do

I think that's great. Will you admit you now know something about that gun you didn't know before?
I'm in it for the education and have taken tremendous risk to tell the 'secrets' that need to be told. Feed back is always nice.

 

[JBelk]

Blackhawk355--- There were at least three variations of "Contenders" and the last one I had in my hands was about 20 years ago. MY MEMORY, which is subject to age, wear and harmful additives, says when the gun has been opened by pulling up on the trigger guard extension and then closed, there is a sliding block attached to the trigger that is in place UNTIL the hammer begins to cock. At that point, a small coil extension spring pulls the safety block out from its position so the hammer can only then hit the firing pin. I know one model had a safety built into the selector switch so the nose of the safety hit the frame and nothing could hit the firing pin. That could be the first model made.
I remember the sound of that block falling and somewhere I have a cake pan full of T-C parts and a frame that I put a rotating hammer block in before being called off the case. The lawyer paid the bill and said "Keep all that stuff". I should look through there. I've probably got a dozen barrels.

 

[JBelk]

It bugs me when my mechanical re-play gets a blank spot in it. Please run a test from me with an unloaded gun that has been opened and shut without the trigger or hammer being pulled. Set the selector to either one of the fire positions before the test. Now, simply push on the back of the hammer. What happens? Does the selector touch the firing pin? Now, pull the trigger and push on the back of the hammer. Does it touch now? I'll bet not, but need to know, otherwise I'll have to drive a hundred miles to find one to look at .
I'm pretty sure the Contender requires the hammer to be cocked BEFORE the trigger can be pulled AND before the selector can touch the firing pin.

 

[JBelk]

Thanks for that, but I still don't know what passive safety it has in it.

Let me go at it a different way--

With the gun empty, set on center fire, opened and then CLOSED, note the distance of the hammer from the frame or pencil mark the side of the hammer to note the precise position. (This is the 'safe to carry loaded position')

Push the back of the hammer--Does it move at all? How far?

Pull the trigger and then PUSH the hammer. Does it move forward? How far? Note that position of the hammer.

Pull the hammer half way back and then ease it forward. Note that position.

Push the hammer forward and note the position.

Pull the trigger and push the hammer forward and note the position. (THIS is the normal 'fire the cartridge' position)

Now you know what a gunsmith is doing when he 'fiddles' with a broken gun.

The answers to these will tell the tale!

The hammer should ONLY go all the way forward if the hammer has been pulled half way back and the trigger pulled, but I suspect yours will go all the way after the hammer has been pulled half way and the trigger NOT pulled if the hammer is pushed forward.

The accidents in the laws suits seemed to all involve the pistol hitting on the butt and then rotating downward to strike the hammer. A test was set up to show it would fire that way.

 

[JBelk]

It's plain the problem is not understood and I don't have a gun to play with to make it plainer.

LISTEN for the click as you slowly pull the hammer back. You might even think its a half cock or something but its not. AFTER the click, the hammer is then free to hit the firing pin by dropping or impact no matter the position of trigger.

 

[JBelk]

Welcome from S. Idaho to the best gun-oriented cracker barrel on the internet, in my opinion.