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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I was playing around with some different lubes today. I came up with this:





Yes, it's "evil black".

It works very well - no matter how bad I mess up a bullet - undersize, oversize, whatnot - I still cannot get any leading, just a bit of powder fouling that comes out easily with a bore snake.

It's made from copper and graphite and used in a tumble lube process that keeps the graphite trapped and everything clean.

Has anyone else done anything similar?

Thanks,

Josh
 

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That's interesting. Howdja do it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hello,

I was going to keep this to myself until I was sure it was working as intended.

Accuracy is much improved. In my gun that's not saying much - I'm having trouble with my loads at this point, but it seems to be a separate issue to the lube. Suffice to say this lube improved things somewhat, but I'm having troubles elsewhere I'm still trying to identify. I'm getting a 10" spread with this lube at 25yds; other lubes missed the paper completely, but Gold Dots go into inch, inch-and-a-half groups at the same distance. After I slug the barrel again and check all measurements, I'll make a separate post to address the issue if I can't resolve it.

Anyway, on to the lube:

1. Visit your local auto parts store.

2. Buy Copper Coat. It's used to coat head gaskets and contains copper in an excellent carrier base which dries quickly.

3. Buy ultra fine powdered graphite.

4. Put the bullets to be lubed into a pan and spray the copper coat onto them, and shake the pan for even coating. I am using disposable aluminum bread pans.

5. Immediately dump them into a container that can be shaken. I have a largish yogurt container I'm using.

6. Sprinkle a bit of graphite onto them.

7. Shake.

8. Check to see if coating is complete; add if needed. Don't go overboard.

9. Pour back into pan to let dry for 30 minutes.

10. Pour into another pan lined with paper towels. Shake back and forth. This removes any excess graphite; there should not be a lot at all.

You're done. Ten easy steps, and a lot less time than Alox.

Since I'm working with a new mould that seems to cast bullets which have excellent accuracy to 15 yards and then don't hit much at 25yds, I would be very interested in others' results on proven loads.

Feedback will help me tune the mixture and hopefully come up with a suspension that only requires the steps that Alox does. I'm still trying to find some molybdenum disulphide to throw into the mix, or possibly replace the graphite.

The experiment is ongoing.

I should mention that I have strong backgrounds in auto mechanics, chemistry, gunsmithing and alchemy :D If you're unsure of something, give me a shout and we'll look at it together. I doubt this little experiment will take a gun apart, but I found that extreme leading occurred with either the copper or the graphite alone.

I believe what's happening is that the copper and graphite are sliding against each other and fusing into a jacket of sorts under heat and pressure while protecting the lead bullet. A recovered bullet still had a hard(ish) black shell on its base.

Anyway, help with the experiment would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Josh
 

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I have used copper coat on engine blocks before but since it is designed to fill pits and imperfections in the block and head surfaces and remain so in high operating temperatures i don't think i would want to allow it to coat my gun bores! It might actually cause dangerous pressures with repeated firings since it will surely be reducing bore size and when this stuff fills pores it ain't coming out easily.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hello,

It doesn't coat the gun bore when used with graphite. Even without the graphite, I didn't see any evidence of anything but leading.

Josh
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hello,

Use less. That was the original application, and I added too much graphite. It should be just a light dusting.


Best application as compared to a .22LR bullet, which also uses a graphite suspension.

Makes it prettier and cuts down on bore ash even more.

Josh

P.S. Remember folks, smokeless powder has graphite for flowing properties. I wouldn't really worry about it hurting the bore (there have been some questions here and on some other boards, PMed and posted). J.S.
 

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Hello,

It doesn't coat the gun bore when used with graphite. Even without the graphite, I didn't see any evidence of anything but leading.

Josh
I used to collect blackpowder guns and once i shot one of my revolvers all day with bp loads and since i was tired at the end of the day i scrubbed all the fouling from the bore and oiled the gun and decided to get the lead out before the next shooting session. I checked the gun from time to time and it was as clean as could be, but when i removed the lead the bore was pitted everywhere lead was present as the leading had covered the black powder fouling and this was something i had not considered. The graphite may be concealing evidence of the stuff coating the bore by making it appear to be the same color as the bore or fouling.
 

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I used to collect blackpowder guns and once i shot one of my revolvers all day with bp loads and since i was tired at the end of the day i scrubbed all the fouling from the bore and oiled the gun and decided to get the lead out before the next shooting session. I checked the gun from time to time and it was as clean as could be, but when i removed the lead the bore was pitted everywhere lead was present as the leading had covered the black powder fouling and this was something i had not considered. The graphite may be concealing evidence of the stuff coating the bore by making it appear to be the same color as the bore or fouling.
Bingo! Get a bullet-sizer/luber and quit playing russian roulette.Or----use all the money you are saving to buy another gun to replace the one you are in the process of trashing.Hate to see what the pressures are after a few rounds.
 

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Fascinating. As long as it doesn't build up in the barrel (and you indicate it does not), then I don't see an issue.

Keep us posted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ok, improved the loads so the groups are now improved.

1. Got consistency going with the alloy. The bullets weigh 230gn +/- 1gn (best I could do) and I rejected everything that wasn't as perfect as I could make it.

2. Reduced the powder charge to 4.9gn +/- .1gn.

3. Switched to Fed 155 primers.

4. And I believe this is the biggie - I did away with the Lee FCD. No crimp is on this these things, and it looks like it was taking the bullets down from my preferred .452" to .451" or so. I didn't feel contact but examined the cases very closely - there was a bit of a spot where it contacted.

Baseline accuracy with this pistol (my own, built on an RIA frame and slide) is 1.5" at 25 yards with Speer Gold Dot, 230gn.

Here are the results of the bullets coated with Alox:


One, 10 shot group was fired. I had two fliers: one was me and marked as such, and the other, I don't know. There are nine shots on target.

Here are the results of the JS Lube (I'm calling it that for lack of a better name):


Two, five shot groups were fired simply because I could get actual groups. One flier, and that was called. I shot while coming out of recoil.

I should be able to reduce these groups even more once I get the alloy just right, and more importantly, consistent from lot to lot. These groups were fired from the same lot of bullets.

I'd like to see if others have the same results, as well as the reduced leading.

Thanks,

Josh
 

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Have you done any further testing with this yet? I would be interested in finding out how many rounds you have fired without cleaning...I still think the cc is more akin to glue than a lubricant but interested all the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Have you done any further testing with this yet? I would be interested in finding out how many rounds you have fired without cleaning...I still think the cc is more akin to glue than a lubricant but interested all the same.
Hello,

I've not really done any testing, per se, with it beyond the initial cleanliness and accuracy tests.

I just accepted it as a finished method/product, whatnot.

I just put several hundred rounds downrange the other day. It got as dirty as it was going to get within the first twenty or so.

Came in, boresnaked the barrel, wiped off the feed ramp, oiled, and loaded it back up with PDX1 for carry.

Josh
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hello,

I found a way to speed up the process, blend the ingredients better and make it better adhere to the bullet.





In handling these now, I am not getting any black on my hands. This comes from handling them to box, and in reloading 50 last night.

I'll release the refined process if there's interest and if the rounds don't leave lead in the barrel after test firing these 50 today.

They do not look good in macro photos; they are flat pretty when seen in person. A nice, shiny black color.

Josh
 
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