New Marlin 1894 Stainless
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Stranger,
Are they offering a faster twist this year in .44magnum?
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Are they offering a faster twist this year in .44magnum?
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What is wrong with you Marlin! Oh well... perhaps next year.
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Stranger,
OK... what's the longest bullet you've put inside 1.5 MOA, at least 75 yards down range, with your 38" twist? What was the velocity? I believe once you exceed about .8", you'll need substantially more than 1500fps at the muzzle to shoot 1.5 MOA at 100 yards or better.
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OK... what's the longest bullet you've put inside 1.5 MOA, at least 75 yards down range, with your 38" twist? What was the velocity? I believe once you exceed about .8", you'll need substantially more than 1500fps at the muzzle to shoot 1.5 MOA at 100 yards or better.
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Agreed.
The two most accurate bullets I shoot are the Hornady XTP 300g and the 300g WFNGC at velocities in excess of 1600 fps. Typically I don't shoot to 1.5 MOA at 100yds with that rifle but that's more a function of by sight setup and my eyes. I use the AO Ghost Ring with the broad front blade and the wide hunting aperture with a shorter sighting radius. It was set up for fast aquisition rather than target precision.
Having said that...
These fast, heavy weight loads shoot marginally more accurately in my 1:38 twist than all the 240g loadings I've tried so far.
The two most accurate bullets I shoot are the Hornady XTP 300g and the 300g WFNGC at velocities in excess of 1600 fps. Typically I don't shoot to 1.5 MOA at 100yds with that rifle but that's more a function of by sight setup and my eyes. I use the AO Ghost Ring with the broad front blade and the wide hunting aperture with a shorter sighting radius. It was set up for fast aquisition rather than target precision.
Having said that...
These fast, heavy weight loads shoot marginally more accurately in my 1:38 twist than all the 240g loadings I've tried so far.
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223 Posts
Jack,
Regarding your 300 grain loads that exceed 1600fps from your 16.25" bbl... how's the cartridge case life? In other words, how many firings does it take to loosen the primer pockets? I'd also be interested to learn what brand of cases and primers you're using.
Also, that 300-WFNGC is a pretty stubby bullet... isn't it? How long is that pill anyway?
Thanks,
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Regarding your 300 grain loads that exceed 1600fps from your 16.25" bbl... how's the cartridge case life? In other words, how many firings does it take to loosen the primer pockets? I'd also be interested to learn what brand of cases and primers you're using.
Also, that 300-WFNGC is a pretty stubby bullet... isn't it? How long is that pill anyway?
Thanks,
44
I haven't mic-ed the Cast Performance bullet but it's shorter for weight due to the wide meplat. It's the same mould as Beartooth's LBT WFNGC that's listed at .835".
Case life has been OK. Most cases have gone through at least 5 firings without any rejects so far (but I'm working on it). I'm using Starline, Hornady Speer (nickel), Federal (nickel) and some Black Hills along with CCI 350 primers.
Both loads are listed on LoadSwap.
Case life has been OK. Most cases have gone through at least 5 firings without any rejects so far (but I'm working on it). I'm using Starline, Hornady Speer (nickel), Federal (nickel) and some Black Hills along with CCI 350 primers.
Both loads are listed on LoadSwap.
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223 Posts
Jack,
Do you have pressure data for those loads?
Thanks,
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Do you have pressure data for those loads?
Thanks,
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I'm just wondering why the page before this one indicates the last poster for this thread is Stranger. The last post contains my question asking Stranger if he has pressure data for his 1600 plus fps .44 load using the 300WFN. BTW, I enjoy and appreciate this website/forum but is it run by the slowest server on the net or what?
Thanks,
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Thanks,
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I'm sorry... I just noticed we've flowed over into a second page! The website is still slow though 
Stranger,
I'm not trying to be confrontational; however, I assumed by your title "Advanced Load Developer" you should be able to provide pressure data. If you have someone in your "network" that has access to a Personal Ballistics Lab, or perhaps Beartooth has access to such equipment, I think it would be very interesting to know what kind of pressures your load is developing. Actually, I think before Beartooth posts any load data on their website they should make an effort to check pressures for the sake of providing knowledge and as a safety measure. If your load is above SAAMI spec's for the gun/ammo combination, I think it's your responsibility to acknowledge this condition before publishing such data. Don't worry, I'm not a lawyer nor do I know any lawyers.
Thank you,
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Stranger,
I'm not trying to be confrontational; however, I assumed by your title "Advanced Load Developer" you should be able to provide pressure data. If you have someone in your "network" that has access to a Personal Ballistics Lab, or perhaps Beartooth has access to such equipment, I think it would be very interesting to know what kind of pressures your load is developing. Actually, I think before Beartooth posts any load data on their website they should make an effort to check pressures for the sake of providing knowledge and as a safety measure. If your load is above SAAMI spec's for the gun/ammo combination, I think it's your responsibility to acknowledge this condition before publishing such data. Don't worry, I'm not a lawyer nor do I know any lawyers.
Thank you,
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Stranger doesn't have the Personal Ballistics Lab. James Gates took it on his boar hunt, mounted on an airboat for in-the-field results. Olga, his attractive eastern european lab assistant takes downloads the telemetry data from his strain-gauged and crush-washered 1894P. Jim has the realtime cams on his pith helmet, taping every stalk. Very professional.
(And Ken Water's only uses a mic for pressure; what an amateur!)
(And Ken Water's only uses a mic for pressure; what an amateur!)
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Yeah, I figured I was asking for too much... Oh well, sorry again.
Yup... me an' Ken Waters can't afford any better than a micrometer. Do you suppose Elmer Keith even used a micrometer? I'll bet he wished he had used something to estimate pressure after he blew that old Peacemaker up in his hand.
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Yup... me an' Ken Waters can't afford any better than a micrometer. Do you suppose Elmer Keith even used a micrometer? I'll bet he wished he had used something to estimate pressure after he blew that old Peacemaker up in his hand.
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Matt:
The loads in question are 21.8g of H110 under the 300g WFNGC cast and 21.5g of H110 onder the 300g Hornady XTP. Both are stout, achieving 1600+ fps from a rifle barrel, but nowhere near "white knuckles" loads. They are, however, quite accurate and consistent in my gun. But as with any handload, proceed with caution.
The loads in question are 21.8g of H110 under the 300g WFNGC cast and 21.5g of H110 onder the 300g Hornady XTP. Both are stout, achieving 1600+ fps from a rifle barrel, but nowhere near "white knuckles" loads. They are, however, quite accurate and consistent in my gun. But as with any handload, proceed with caution.
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223 Posts
Stranger/mattc,
Thanks for the replies. What had me wondering is that Hodgdon's #26 doesn't list any .44 rifle loads that even break 1500fps with 300 grain jacketed bullets and their website list the following maximum load with a 300 grain XTP:
19.0 grains H110 for 1473fps with 38,800 CUP from a 20" bbl.
Now, I personally know that 19.0 grains of H110 behind a 300 grain cast bullet in a .44mag Ruger sixgun is NOT a maximum load and have taken my Rugers past 21 grains without apprehension. However, I'm trying to get a feel for the Marlin 1894's capability before investing what I would call a large sum of money. I'm sure the charge listed by Stranger is safe in his rifle; however, I wouldn't consider using it on a frequent basis if all I could get out of my .44mag brass was about a half dozen reloads. The reason I'm pursuing this is because I'd like to know if all that performance is available to me from a Marlin 1894 at the cost of about 36K CUP.
Thanks for all your help,
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Thanks for the replies. What had me wondering is that Hodgdon's #26 doesn't list any .44 rifle loads that even break 1500fps with 300 grain jacketed bullets and their website list the following maximum load with a 300 grain XTP:
19.0 grains H110 for 1473fps with 38,800 CUP from a 20" bbl.
Now, I personally know that 19.0 grains of H110 behind a 300 grain cast bullet in a .44mag Ruger sixgun is NOT a maximum load and have taken my Rugers past 21 grains without apprehension. However, I'm trying to get a feel for the Marlin 1894's capability before investing what I would call a large sum of money. I'm sure the charge listed by Stranger is safe in his rifle; however, I wouldn't consider using it on a frequent basis if all I could get out of my .44mag brass was about a half dozen reloads. The reason I'm pursuing this is because I'd like to know if all that performance is available to me from a Marlin 1894 at the cost of about 36K CUP.
Thanks for all your help,
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Forty Four,
If you can pick up the latest Rifle magazine (Jan 2002) Brian Pierce has an excellent article about pistol cartridges in lever guns. It'll answer all your questions. Beware though, after you read this, you'll be heading to the gun store. I'm speaking from experience.
To summarize a few key points, the majority of the velocity is generated in the first 16 inches. Each inch thereafter is worth about 15 fps with pistol cartridges, a negligable amount in my opinion. The 44 mag carbine with a 16 inch barrel will push a 300 grain bullet to 1600 fps + (with H110/296) and be well within pressure specs and case life should be excellent. In the Rifle article, a factory 300gr load produced almost 1700 fps with a 20 inch barrel. I myself went with the .45 Colt because of the same-velocity-heavier-bullet-lower-pressure thing, but mostly because I already reload for my Ruger Bisley in the same caliber.
Good luck!
If you can pick up the latest Rifle magazine (Jan 2002) Brian Pierce has an excellent article about pistol cartridges in lever guns. It'll answer all your questions. Beware though, after you read this, you'll be heading to the gun store. I'm speaking from experience.
To summarize a few key points, the majority of the velocity is generated in the first 16 inches. Each inch thereafter is worth about 15 fps with pistol cartridges, a negligable amount in my opinion. The 44 mag carbine with a 16 inch barrel will push a 300 grain bullet to 1600 fps + (with H110/296) and be well within pressure specs and case life should be excellent. In the Rifle article, a factory 300gr load produced almost 1700 fps with a 20 inch barrel. I myself went with the .45 Colt because of the same-velocity-heavier-bullet-lower-pressure thing, but mostly because I already reload for my Ruger Bisley in the same caliber.
Good luck!
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223 Posts
mattc,
Just wanted to say thanks. I'll see if I can locate that issue of "Rifle".
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Just wanted to say thanks. I'll see if I can locate that issue of "Rifle".
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