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Discussion Starter #1
Greetings,

Just joined this day seeking some technical information. Maybe, I could learn as well from the abundance of experts here. Basically, we collect firearms and have been for some time. An intrinsic understanding of all mechanical parts associated with light (not lite) weaponry. This facet does not make me an expert, rather someone just versed in the mechanics.
 
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Welcome aboard from S. Idaho where the snow is deep and the wind is high and sensible critters are hunkered down.
 
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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks very much. Never been to Idaho but we had some family members there, sometimes panning for gold. I simply was not interested in searching for something that has no relevance in this generation. Irrespective of that, Idaho must have some open space.

* You look much adept with metal. Could you possibly review my post on 'stainless' barrels as to provide an answer?

Addendum:
Apparently, my thread is still under review.
 

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The Shadow
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Stainless also gets hammer forged, Ruger does it every day.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Here's the basic hammer forging process ---
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oALJDh43K3I

I haven't seen the question about Hastings yet.

I was seeking some information on a rifle I own, namely a Winchester Model 70 'Classic' Featherweight (Post 64) .270 Stainless - New Haven, CT. Would any know if the barrel (stainless) is 'cut' rifled or 'button' rifled? Naturally, the barrel is not cold hammer forged as being stainless. I've contacted Winchester about a year ago and spoke with Lenny, the Winchester Historical Librarian regarding some technical information relating to the aforesaid rifle. Unfortunately, we did not discuss 'barrel forming'. Lenny has recently retired.

Secondarily, I also spoke with someone in the technical area at Winchester at about the same time in respect to barrels. The person said that in those years, (1994-1996), Hastings manufactured many barrels for Winchester in the M-70 line. I asked him if there were any way to identify this, and he said, "No, there is not". He further added that they were 'tack shooters'. Irrespective of the triviality, would any know if Hastings manufactured barrels for Winchester, and if so, is there any way to distinguish the differences? I did make mention of markings but the person added, "there are no markings".

Supplement:
1.) Did Winchester use 416R for their stainless barrels within the above time frame (1994-1996) or would they have tried 416? Are the same properties used in the Winchester barrels today (FN)? I was unaware that stainless barrels were hammer forged; learn each day. A reply is appreciated.

* Thanks for the link. I'm somewhat familiar with hammer forging. May have seen the Sabatti video prior. They have some top notch tools.
 

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Cold forging is done on SS but I don't know about your rifle. Hastings makes button rifled rifle barrels (and broached shotguns, is my understanding) so anything they supplied Winchester would be button rifled. Winchester has bought barrels and sold barrels over the years and none are marked as to the make that I know of.....and it seems to make no difference, either. The issue of 'foreign' barrels not being up to par is rare.

What steel was used is probably lost in a boxcar full of old documents, only a lawyer on a quest for discovery would be able to dig that out.
 
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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Thanks very much for the information you supplied. You're certainly abreast of the turmoil that has been ongoing for years with Winchester. I've looked into the 'steel' issue and to use the discovery process to acquire the information would be useless, totally useless. There was a fire I believe where Winchester alleges the records in those years were lost and never retrieved.

* Is there any way to determine the barrel forming by looking at the rifling and are there any proof marks such as ( WP) or (P) "past" still in existence within the 1990's or current production? Most of the specific technical information is hidden to prevent others into acquiring the foundation. This stands to reason when a tool industry is conducting business in the billions.

* By the way, I would much prefer a 'Hastings' barrel than Winchester. Both shoot well and have no qualms of 'Hastings' being anything but the best > 'No longer in existence'
 

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I don't know of any 'secrets' being held. None of the gun companies make their own machine tools and all are adapted from other industries.

Here's a button rifled barrel showing the 'chatter' that shows up after many rounds are shot, usually. The marks are closer together in smaller bores and sometime absent in anything above 6mm.
This .221 Fireball barrel has nearly 6,000 rounds through it and the chatter only shows up the first inch of throat.

I know of no markings or indications of make, material or process, but usually the companies are willing to share. Become a student writing a paper.... :)
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
That would pose a dilemma for my chamber: (.277) .270 caliber. When one speaks of Winchester specifically, "They are not willing to share", for I've conducted research for numerous years. In reality, I somewhat pressed Lenny (Winchester Historical Librarian) to the utmost as he could only divulge what Winchester allowed. This fact can be clearly corroborated verbatim (documented). To move into the white paper aspect has been a thought but there is no interest for the bolt crowd is dead and the remainder seem to be non-existent.

* The 'fire' (alleged) was a useful, very useful way to eradicate any errors and more so to arrange or reconstruct the monetary assets.

* (1.) The main argument still exists (one question). Is there anyone who can provide the barrel forming on my specific rifle?

(2.) The key as taken from Winchester:
Winchester Model 70 barrels are made in the same American factory that produces barrels for the rifles and machine guns used by the U.S. Armed Forces around the world. With the exception of the stainless version, every Model 70 barrel is cold hammer-forged from a solid billet of steel for accuracy and long life.

A. > Would the aforesaid not stand to reason in all likeliness that the barrel on my Winchester (Stainless) is "not hammer forged"? "EXCEPTION"!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thank you very much. Maybe, you could shed some light on the above.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I just contacted Winchester with the hopes of acquiring the aforesaid information.

1.) Stainless barrel is buttoned, not hammer forged.
2.) Winchester 'never' used 416 R, only 410 or 416. Waiting on the response from Winchester as to the quality. Either or would suffice BUT I'd like to see the Winchester wearing or fitted with 410; just my opinion. All replies relating to this area are appreciated.

Addendum:

Upon purchasing a "new" rifle, should there be any burn marks on the bolt face from proof testing?
 

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The Shadow
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I just contacted Winchester with the hopes of acquiring the aforesaid information.

1.) Stainless barrel is buttoned, not hammer forged.
2.) Winchester 'never' used 416 R, only 410 or 416. Waiting on the response from Winchester as to the quality. Either or would suffice BUT I'd like to see the Winchester wearing or fitted with 410; just my opinion. All replies relating to this area are appreciated.

Addendum:

Upon purchasing a "new" rifle, should there be any burn marks on the bolt face from proof testing?
No one in the US "Proofs" rifles like the CIP, one or two may get tested for batch testing purposes.
I'm still confused at what the point of this is, if you want a barrel made of X, then buy one and rebarrel it.
 
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