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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
I gave him the math to be able to figure that. The question is will he be redneck enough to do the solution, or is he going to be chicken and ask if Someone else had done it they way first. 馃槈馃槅馃槅馃槅
Hah Hah, neither my friend.
If my new Browning rings dont work as expected on my new Browning Rifle. I am gonna make Browning explain to me why I need to shim and bed a base to get their gun to shoot.

...but dont get me wrong, I am redneck enough! I have made some very ugly but wonderfully working creations on my tractors, old Case backhoe etc. A man can do just about anything with a set of torches and a welder........well, except make a gun shoot well. :)
 

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A man can do just about anything with a set of torches and a welder........well, except make a gun shoot well. :)
Oh contrare, mon-frare馃槅 if you ever make it off that island out West, I'll show you some things that will turn you white馃ぃ馃ぃ馃ぃ

Seriously though, the tinfoil trick works really well. That referenced rifle is still running a redneck canted base after several thousand rounds, and a hilarious tumble down a hill on a rolling 4-wheeler.
Gotta look really closely to even notice.

Wood Bumper Gas Automotive tire Machine tool



Get this tiger by the tail, and share some range reports with us!!
 

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Don't let Darkker fool you, jds. That rifle he refers to does shoot well, and the hill tumbling story is true, but you'll 'notice' the tinfoil immediately. How, you ask? The smell of old sandwiches materializes whenever you get near it. I don't think the tinfoil was cleaned up well enough from lunch that day...
:D
:p
 

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FN-Browning actually did have some trouble with the aluminum receiver BARs (including, or maybe concentrated in, the FNAR) in the not-too-terribly-distant past. They didn't get the scope base mount holes quite right, and you couldn't zero the ones that were made wrong. That's been long enough ago that I wouldn't have thought it would affect the Mk3. Too, all of those were 'windage' problems, not elevation, but it's worth a measure and a straight-edge.

Also, be careful about over-tightening scope base mount screws on those rifles. The steel thread inserts and their anchoring in the aluminum receiver are solid enough, but not always solid enough for those of us accustomed to farming for a living. LOL

If you've checked this stuff already, sorry for not reading the whole thread closely.
 

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I had to borrow a sling once when I forgot one. Thanksgiving holiday and the sling broke on about my 3rd step out of my truck. It landed on the presentation pad...bounced and then landed right on the front of the scope. Redfield 6 X 18. It was off about 15 inches at 35 yards when I tried it later that morning. I used a Matchbox cover as shim material to get it back to where I needed it. I killed a nice Turkey Tom and 10 pt. buck that week. Redfield fixed it for free...maybe $10 for shipping. I still have that scope 40+ years later.
 

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hello all, I'm relatively new to shooting / setting up rifles. I have been shooting them for about 8 years or so now. I recently bought a new Savage storm bolt action in 7mm-08 and had quite a time sighting it in. Out of the box, it was shooting about 36" low and right at 100 yards. I had to run the turrets over and up so far the scope ran out of up adjustment. I sent the rifle back to Savage about a month ago for them to have a look at it. I haven'bnt heard back yet.
I just got my new Browning BAR Mark 3 in 7mm-08. I installed a picatinny style one piece mount, Burris rings, and a Leupold VX-Freedom 3-9x50 scope. With the scope optically centered (using the mirror method) the rifle shoots 18" right and 22" low. It shot a 1" group with 3 rounds of factory ammo but the POI seems way out of whack to me. I tried another scope with the same results.
Is this typical performance of a new gun?? I had much higher hopes for the Browning.
I had the same experience with my Storm in 6.5 CreedMOOR........I tried different bases and it improved some. I had to get the Burris rings with the plastic inserts to get it close. I've mounted a few scopes on rifles and never had one off so much as the Storm.
 

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Never had one that far off but I had one that was 8 inches off at 50 yards which is 16 at 100 and couldn't get the iron sights to correct it enough to bring it on center. I scoped it and ignored the iron sights. Shot really good other than that. It was an old JC Higgins model 50 in 30-06. 36 inches in totally unacceptable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
So, here is where the story ends.
I ordered integrated bases/ rings right from Browning, I ordered a lazer bore sighter and a Wheeler scope mounting kit. I had to pay $35 extra to get the scope mounting kit here for this weekend so that I would have all of the pieces together.
I got everything yesterday afternoon so I put the rings on to see what they did for me.
The scope hits the barrel. Since they are offset by one screw hole, I flipped them around to be closer to the muzzle, the scope still touches the barrel. Browning sold a low, and a medium height set. The medium height was supposed to be for 50mm scopes.
I called Browning and explained, the product specialist said " they should fit ". I assured him they did not, He then said you must have them backwards. I said both rings are identical and there are no marking for front or rear on either piece. He put me on hold for a minute than came back and said, " your right, there is no front or rear". He said " well, different scopes measure differently ". So I asked him if he could tell me which mounts will fit my gun and scope combo. He transferred me over to a Technician. By this time I am a lot less patient. I explain the whole deal to the Tech, how far off it was shooting, that I have purchased 2 new bases, tried 3 different scopes, etc and didnt want to keep throwing money at it. He asked me what I was looking for. I said I wanted a quality set of rings / bases , preferably integrated , so that I could see where the gun is actually hitting. He paused, then asked me again how far off the gun was hitting. I told him and then he asked if I could adjust the scope enough to get it to hit zero. He said there is 60 MOA adjustment available on the scope. I said yes, but I didnt want to do that in such excess if there was something else wrong. He asked me how far I was going to shoot it. I said probably 300 yards max. He said " your fine, the problems you worried about wont show up until about 500 yards. "
I said, I didnt realize this gun had limitations on it when I bought it. I asked him if he thought it was normal for a Browning to shoot that far off. At first he said no, then he said well, if it was a bolt action that wouldn't be good, but with a semi-automatic you can expect it to be that far off. I told him I have a Remington 7400 semi-automatic built in the 80's and it doesn't shoot anywhere near that far off. Then there was another pause and he said , my suggestion is that you is just make the adjustments and shoot the gun. I said, thats it.... he said yes. I couldnt think of anything else to say so I said, thanks, bye.

When you go to the Browning website it says, " Browning the best there is " You could say a lot about this whole deal but, the best there is, is not one of them.

Back to the gun, I have a Bushnell scope that has a 40mm objective lens so I put that on the new Browning rings/ bases. I popped in my new Lazer bore sighter and set the gun down with the lazer pointed at a far wall and starting clicking them off to get the crosshairs and the lazer point to meet. It was about 60 clicks over, and a little over 80 clicks up to get it bore sighted. Pretty much exactly what I saw with the other hardware.
So, clearly Browning doesnt give a crap. My best option I think is to use the Burris signature rings and try different offset inserts to get it close.
I guarantee this is the last Browning product I will every buy. And I think I will be writing a letter to Browning ( for what its worth ) .
 

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Like old Kenny Rogers sang in a song, you gotta know when hold em, you gotta know when to fold em. Start out by sending the gun back to Browning and tell them you want a refund or new gun. If that doesn't work sell it.
 

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If it were me, I鈥檇 ask to speak to the supervisor of theperson you were talking to. The people at the lower levels simply don鈥檛 have the authority to do many things to correct your problem. Every company out there, in every field, has what they call 鈥済oodwill money鈥 that can be used to settle problems like this. Speak to a supervisor and explain that the gun鈥檚 coming back whether they like it or not. Be firm in telling them that you鈥檙e not accepting the gun in its defective condition. If that doesn鈥檛 work, go to the BBB and open a complaint. Believe it or not, most companies do not want open complaints with the BBB. I鈥檝e gotten cars replaced, refrigerators replaced, and an ATV replaced simply using the BBB after all other efforts failed. It鈥檚 free and you鈥檝e got nothing to lose.
 

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As a gun mechanic, I want to know what's wrong with it.
First step is to take the barrel off with it's attached extension and spin it in your hands.
If the extension is put on crooked, it'll show and if the barrel is bent, it'll be clear.
Otherwise, it has to be a receiver-barrel misalignment which is very hard to do.
In the late '60s, Ruger had a batch of old flat-bolt M77s with the barrel shank threads obviously pointed downhill and no scope could be zeroed. In the early '70s, Remington M742BDLs (humpbacks) were too crooked to zero Leupold 3-9 scopes which only had 36MOA adjustments. Bent barrels account the rest of what I've seen in 50 years of looking.

When it's sent back to the factory, it'll be shot with the iron sights which have to be pretty much 'on'. I think the problem is in the joint between parts or the scope mount holes. I can't imagine not being able to SEE the problem with that much variance.
 

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We have all run into problems like this one. Be sure to check your scope bases and make sure they are the correct ones. Check the quality too. Nowadays, there are more than a few makers of sub quality bases and rings. Even some of the high dollar rings and bases are sometimes sub standard. I had great difficulty with a 6mm BR target rifle with expensive barrel. Everything looked perfect and seemed tight, but the gun just would not shoot tight groups. I whacked off the barrel and re-chambered it for .243. Same problem. The thing did fair hunting level accuracy, but nothing near competitive one hole groups. I was ready to get rid of the barrel and start over. I decided to change the scope, and try one last time. I loosened the rings and removed the scope. As I felt the rear ring base, I detected a minute movement. I put on magnifying glasses, and with the ring base wound down tight on the Picatinny rail, there was an almost imperceptible movement of that ring on the rail. With the scope installed and rings tight, the scope seemed solid, but there was just enough movement for rifle vibration to open up distant groups. These were high dollar steel rings but the were out of specs. With new rings, the rifle, in .243, shot a 7/8" group at 500 yards. The rifle is challenging my shooting abilities now.

Double and triple check the scope and rings and bases.

Also, check for stock pressure against the barrel or maybe looseness.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Thanks Dave. To be honest, a 7/8" group at even 100 yards is now challenging my shooting abilities. My eyes are not as good as they used to be. : )
I went over everything several times and tried different setups and different scopes. I shipped the gun back to Browning today. I hope they look it over thoroughly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Thanks Dave. To be honest, a 7/8" group at even 100 yards is now challenging my shooting abilities. My eyes are not as good as they used to be. : )
I went over everything several times and tried different setups and different scopes. I shipped the gun back to Browning today. I hope they look it over thoroughly.
We have all run into problems like this one. Be sure to check your scope bases and make sure they are the correct ones. Check the quality too. Nowadays, there are more than a few makers of sub quality bases and rings. Even some of the high dollar rings and bases are sometimes sub standard. I had great difficulty with a 6mm BR target rifle with expensive barrel. Everything looked perfect and seemed tight, but the gun just would not shoot tight groups. I whacked off the barrel and re-chambered it for .243. Same problem. The thing did fair hunting level accuracy, but nothing near competitive one hole groups. I was ready to get rid of the barrel and start over. I decided to change the scope, and try one last time. I loosened the rings and removed the scope. As I felt the rear ring base, I detected a minute movement. I put on magnifying glasses, and with the ring base wound down tight on the Picatinny rail, there was an almost imperceptible movement of that ring on the rail. With the scope installed and rings tight, the scope seemed solid, but there was just enough movement for rifle vibration to open up distant groups. These were high dollar steel rings but the were out of specs. With new rings, the rifle, in .243, shot a 7/8" group at 500 yards. The rifle is challenging my shooting abilities now.

Double and triple check the scope and rings and bases.

Also, check for stock pressure against the barrel or maybe looseness.
So, I just called Savage on my 110 storm that I sent back to them about 6 weeks ago. She said that they have " terminated " that rifle and will send me a new rifle from the next run they have.
So, how did that rifle leave the factory and get sent to me. Makes you wonder doesn't it? Anyway, I'm just glad they are not sending it back to me telling me there is nothing wrong.
Browning just received my BAR back yesterday. I can't wait to see what they tell me.
 
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