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New to the 338 Winchester

12K views 70 replies 35 participants last post by  MS 9x56 
#1 ·
Been hunting and reloading for years, and have reloaded and hunted with some stout loads in a Marlin 45-70. I prefer a milder recoiling cartridge for most of my needs, but for some dang fooled reason I had to have a 338. No, I didn't lose a critter and look for a bigger gun, but I did want something to hammer our larger than average black bear, should the chance present itself.

Anyway, I lucked up (?) and got a really good deal on a nice older Abolt in 338 Winmag, stainless and synthetic with the BOSS. It came with everything except the manual, and 115 rounds of 225 grain Hornady SST's. I mounted a trusted Leupold scope and started shooting it.

I've fired somewhere around 50-60 rounds mostly target practicing, and have noticed accuracy to be erratic, at best, getting pie plate sized 3 shot groups. I have tried getting a friend to load the magazine for me, sometimes on a fired case, to see how much factor flinching is for me with this rifle. While there is some flinch, it's not as bad as I expected or have seen in other shooters. There is some flinch, but little enough that I'm all but writing that off as being not the problem or a small part of a bigger problem. 3 shot groups running 6" at 100 yards are not uncommon. On the same day with other rifles I have shot nice, normal groups, so I don't think it's wind, range conditions, etc.

I've cleaned the barrel. Played with the boss settings quite a bit. Made sure the boss and everything else was 'tight'. I took it apart and 'improved' the factory (I think) bedding job by bedding more of the back section of the barrel, and free floating the fore end ahead of the bedded area. I've also changed scope bases. Current bases are Talley. The scope is a Leupold 3-9x50 mm. I know that sometimes a 50 mm scope gets beat to death on top of big magnums.

I'm about to start handloading for it, using some Sierra 225 GK bullets. Probably play with Imr 4350, Re 19. I also have some H4831SC and Viht N160 I could play with. While I can handle about 15 to 20 rounds at a bench session, any more and I start getting pretty fatigued, honestly. Any suggestions as to a good starting point loading this caliber would be appreciated, but I think the IMR 4350 and bullets seated fairly close to the lands should do me fine.

I'm still concerned about the current groups. It seems to want to go from 2" groups to 6" groups and then back again sometimes. I'm wondering if I'm letting the barrel heat up too much, or the scope's going bad, or what's going on. I can get guilty of shooting a little fast when I get focused. With a lighter recoiling rifle I don't mind keeping playing with it a bit, but it's disappointing to shoot something that kicks this much and not getting decent groups.

I've also added a limbsaver pad, and a mercury recoil reducer, and these seem to help with recoil quite a bit, the pad probably more than the recoil reducer.

Thoughts, suggestions?
 
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#2 · (Edited)
I'm not sure on what could be ailing the rifle. But when shooting the big boomers I always have to remind myself and everyone I let shoot them, to calm down.

You need to be as relaxed as possible, take your time, and make sure you do everything perfect. I find a lot of guys tense up when they shoot their big guns and they generally don't do well with them. Myself included at times. Recoil is just a part of it. Not going to really hurt you but it's going to happen :) once you get that sunk in, you'll shoot the big guns as well as you shoot the small ones.

If the problem is the rifle itself then none of that helps ya! If it's shooting 2" groups then opening up to 6" then I'd say something is definately going on there.
 
#3 ·
I have a brother that has that rifle, he claims it shoot's very well. But I would avoid it for that potato on the barrel. Sound's like you bedded under the chamber. Easy spot to mess it up. Check the front of the bedding, it must go straight across the barrel channel or it will throw shot's all over. Way to fic it is to put a couple layers of tape around the barrel in front of the chamber. Even if some bedding gets under it then, the barrel will still float. When your finished, check for receiver bind by tightening both guard screw's. Then loosen the front screw slowly watching the barrel in front of the action. It should not rise at all, any movement will be caused by stress in the action. It move's at all I re-bed the action also. When re-bedding the action, I wrap tape several time's around the very front of the stock to stop the barrel from weighing don the action and pulling the rear screw hole op. I do bed the rear hole at the same time but no screw in it. Plug the screw hole in the action with clay and don't worry about the hole in the wood. When it's finishing drying, take it out of the stock and run a drill bit the size of the screw hole through it from the bottom side up, clean's the hole right out.
 
#4 ·
Back in the early '90s I had a A-Bolt Stainless Stalker in 300 Win Mag, without the BOSS. I tried nearly every factory cartridge brand/weight and quite a few handload recipes in it. Had the same group sizes you're seeing. With my two Remington 700s in 300 Win Mag, I had at that time, I had no problem shooting less than 1-1/4 MOA five round groups with either rifle and factory 180gr CoreLokts. Sent the A-Bolt back to Browning. They rebarreled it. When I got it back the best it would shoot was @ 2 MOA three round groups with a couple brands of 180gr loads and the same with the best handloads I came up with. Bedded the action, floated the barrel, changed scopes, rings and mounts, lapped the bore and recut the crown. Barely got the three round groups down to 1-1/2 MOA. Finally got rid of that rifle!

I have had great success with the BOSS system on several Winchester M70 Classics (CRF). One of them is a M70 300 Win Mag Stainless that I put a HS Precision stock on. After dialing in the BOSS, it nearly bugholes four rounds of Barnes 180gr TTSX at 100 yards. My son has claimed that one!
 
#5 · (Edited)
Shawn Crea, a member here has the same rifle if my memory is correct. As a rule Abolts shoot good so I'd reconsider before messing with stuff that may affect accuracy for the worst.
My .338 is a MKII but it tends to shoot bullets over 200 grains very well, Don't like the light ones at all.
The two worked loads for it are 225 and 250 Accubonds. It also shoot other bullet makes almost as well. Same with powder IMR4831 and RL-19 seems to be two it does good with. Have gone with the RL-19 for more velocity since the 4831's sweet spot is closer to the starting load.
 
#51 · (Edited)
Same with powder IMR4831 and RL-19 seems to be two it does good with. Have gone with the RL-19 for more velocity since the 4831's sweet spot is closer to the starting load.
Agree. I use lots of IMR 4831 in the 243 and 270 Winchester, but RL 19 is the go to powder in the 338 with 250 grain bullets.

Nothing wrong with a 45-70/338 combination. Have exactly the same myself. For elk hunting in all conditions, go with the 338. If they're holed up in the timber, the big Marlin is the go to.

Zero experience with BOSS, so can't comment on that, but I'd mount another TESTED scope on the 338 before starting to tear it apart. When I got my 338 about ten years ago, it was a package rifle with a garbage Simmons mounted. I purposely left it on to see how many full power loads it would survive. Answer: About twenty. My load of 71.5 gr. of RL 19 behind a 250 grain Hornady SP went from 1.5 MOA to minute of backstop in one box of ammo. Mounted the Nikon 3x9 I'd already bought for it right away, and it'll consistently group three shots under 5 inches @ 300 metres (330 yards), making it a 400 yard elk rifle.

Edit: I see you've already tested it with a trusted scope. I'd try it once more with another one, and if it's still erratic, start looking for something seriously wrong with the bore, the crown, or the bedding. Any modern bolt rifle with decent ammo that groups larger than 3 MOA is seriously screwed up. I have a 1938 Mosin that's a 1.5 MOA shooter with cheap steel case ammunition.
 
#6 ·
Velocity Disease

You are suffering from velocity disease. You probably ignore recommendations for humane harvest in foot pounds impact on game for humane harvest.

Either of the two calibers you mention will shoot reduced loads calculated for humane harvest that are well below factory level recoil.

I tailor my big Black Bear load for humane harvest power to 150 yards for my all up 10 lb Colt Sauer .458 WM or my 10 lb Handi 500 S&W Mag both to shoot a 350 gr bullet at 1700 fps MV. The load kicks less than a 30-30 lever rifle in my 10 lb rifles and flattens big Black Bear to 150 yards. I can comfortably shoot 50 rounds at the range with no bruises and no flinching.

You can tailor your 45-70 or your 338 loads to duplicate my load energy without problems. Consider adding weight to your rifles for recoil taming.

Gary
 
#10 ·
You are suffering from velocity disease. You probably ignore recommendations for humane harvest in foot pounds impact on game for humane harvest.
Gary
Appreciate the suggestion. I've shot deer with 30-30's and a 45-70 as well as muzzle loaders and a bunch of other calibers. We're allowed to shoot 6 deer a year, and I usually get 6 a season, I've been at it for 20 years.

Some friends and I came to the conclusion that speed kills. Too much speed can be a bad thing, but with most rifles, you're more likely to have just right velocity or too little than too much. One of us eventually read something about the whole 2600 fps striking velocity and hydrostatic, and we noticed that it tended to fit with what we had been noticing ourselves. I've taken deer with hand cast lead bullets and balls, but I'd much prefer a 270 to a 30-30. It's just a faster game dropper. In our area, the woods are thick, and something that stops them where they're at can often make a huge difference. To add insult to injury, bear are notorious for fat clogging the bullet holes and/or fur absorbing more blood than on a deer. The whole reason I became interested in this caliber is to stop a feeding or walking bear in its' tracks, rather than have to trail it off in the bushes while it dies from a slower bullet.

While I see the usefulness of using foot pounds as a rough gage to measure the killing power from one caliber to another, I've never really gotten very hung up on it. Generally if I'm hitting game at or above 2600 fps with a 'normal for caliber' game bullet, I don't worry too much about it.

However, your suggestion (and Darkkers about recoil and flinching) has given the idea to load some lighter practice loads and see if I need to work on my tolerance to recoil. If I can find a light weight plinking load, maybe 2/3 of the recoil with decent accuracy, it might even make a good deer load. Could prove interesting in itself! I remember when I was shooting my 1895 Marlin, I worked up a healthy tolerance to recoil after a while. I might need to 'recultivate it'.
 
#7 ·
Played with the boss settings quite a bit. Made sure the boss and everything else was 'tight'.
To know if you just "missed" it, take the boss completely off and shoot. But honestly, and meant very politely, let someone else shoot it.
Your description of some flinching but not too bad, tends to be more wishful than actual. So pull the boss of and have someone who won't flinch and is a shorter, see what it can do.
That will tell you if the boss is fighting you, or the rifle has problems.
 
#9 ·
I don't know the torque specs, but I literally shot the gun loose once in 52 rounds (just counted fired rounds, doing brass prep tonight). I picked the gun up out of the sandbags, and could feel the barrel/action flopping around in the stock! Tightened it up temporarily and resumed shooting till I could get home. Bedded the chamber area, and attempted to bed the rear action area. The trigger shape makes bedding this part trickier than on the 700's and Model Sevens I've done so far.

Anyway, once I fooled with the bedding, I torqued the front like an angry gorilla, and the rear good and snug, but nothing overly tight. The middle screw seems to do little more than hold the trigger guard.
 
#11 ·
Sometimes certain muzzle devices can be like a really bad crown on a rifles muzzle. There is also the risk of over-torquing the muzzle device too.

I'd pull that sucker off and see if it cleans up accuracy. I've swapped muzzle devices on my "tacti-cool" varmint rifles before and seen big differences in POI and accuracy.
 
#13 ·
Load reduction

42.5 gr H4895 with your 225 gr in 338 WM yields 2100 fps and just over 1000 foot pounds at 150 yards for a 150 yard humane harvest Deer load. Youth loads are calculated to this level. This load will kick less than a 30-30 lever rifle with factory ammo. H4895 is highly recommended by Hodgdon in their youth loads PDF and has good ignition with down to 1/2 available case room. Reduced loads with H4895 generally are equal to more accurate than factory ammo and have good clean kill power to 150 yards for Deer. Any cartridge/ bullet weight where H4895 is recommended by Hodgdon may be reduced by Hodgdon recommendation down to 1/2 available case room.

The powders you have are not safe to reduce like H4895 is.

For reference, the Hodgdon Data START load with your bullet weight in 338 WM is 53 gr H4895 for 2505 fps and that load has 1000 ft pounds out to 250 yards humane harvest.

g
 
#14 ·
Humane harvest deer load, WTF?? Shoot what you like and can shoot well and just don't use AMAX bullets....lol. Holy smokes...."humane harvest". Whats next, PETA friendly loads??? O&O
 
#16 ·
Silliness abounds whenever 'foot-pounds' comes into the discussion. If you want to reduce loads - figure out how far away you will shoot a critter, and then how fast the bullet needs to be going to expand (if it is an expanding bullet) and then the problem will work itself out.

As an example to the above, if Nosler says an Accubond will expand at 'x,xxx' feet per second, and you'll be shooting deer out to 150 yards (or whatever), then make sure that your loads start out fast enough to meet the recommended threshold of expansion at that range. So, off the top of my head, probably 400fps faster than the minimum expansion threshold? Just a guess, look it up in the trajectory tables. They are in every reloading book I own. If that's too complicated, then just use recommended starting loads and don't shoot deer too far away.

A .338 Win Mag will surely kill any deer that ever walked the earth, but the pointy bullets have to expand to be any good. On the other hand, flat-nosed bullets in the .35 Rem work just great, pretty much no matter the muzzle velocity. Have to know what you are dealing with before making predictions.

Shooting a .338 off the bench.... I have a Ruger 77 and you had best be holding the forend like it owes you money, before touching off a round. If you do that, it isn't bad. If you fail to do that, you won't do it twice. Guaranteed! But it is accurate when I do my part. Years ago I found some Federal Premium loads with the 210 gr. Partition, reasonably priced. They are (sadly) almost all gone, and shot like a house afire. Will that work for your gun? I don't know. But try some of the lighter bullets. The 210s were more pleasant, and by chance, more accurate than 225 or 250gr. bullets. Probably just random chance.

May have to go back to a slightly smaller cartridge, say the .30-06, and work your way back up. Just a thought. I don't shoot my .338 a lot and generally, it is one group to test the zero and back in the cabinet it goes. Just not my idea of an all-day gun to wear out at the range.

Just a few thoughts.
 
#71 ·
Just an observation as I have had this discussion with several hunting buddies who went through their 338 mag phase. They go from an AR then want bigger and faster so buy a 338 only to find out it slaps the snot out of them. And they don't like it. Then in an effort to mitigate the recoil they down load it. I ask them why did you want that rifle in the first place, what was your end goal. Usually they say something like they want DRT or short copious blood trails. I explain that is a good goal but where we hunt 150 yards is a long shot. I explain at that range you can meet your goal with a more manageable round such as 35 rem or 358 win or if you must have more rea
Onondaga, I appreciate your suggestions.



My needs and wants are fairly different than yours, but I can see that you've spent quite a bit of time experimenting and loading and tinkering to gain this knowledge, and, I respect you for that.

I probably DO suffer from velocity disease, I normally do think starting loads are stupid. Let me explain, that wasn't meant to be knocking you, I've just always been of the opinion to buy a weapon that under normal operation (factory ammo) is the power class you want it. Yep, you can make a 30-06 shoot at 30-30 or even 30 carbine power levels with the RIGHT load, but, respectfully, if a boy wants a 30 carbine, buy a 30 carbine, not a 30-06. I've also seen boys with the right barrel and handloads get the old 30-06 to nearly rival the power of a 300 magnum (usually by fudging the handloads on the hot side with a longish barrel). However...

I do know this rifle recoils a lot more than what I'm used to. But, I do want full power, flat shooting loads for bear hunting, in MY neck of the woods. A normal bear hunting scenario here is to catch the bear feeding in a field or crossing the road on a cold winter morning, and something that shoots -flat- and hits hard is quite the order of the day. I've made more than a few kills on deer in the 200-275 yard range, and I'd like to use this skill to my advantage hunting bears. In my mind, that calls for something that hits hard and hopefully doesn't require me to think too hard about holdover while I'm already a bit excited and all with a bear in front of me. I passed up several shots on a sow with a mature cub this year at right around 250 yards. I could have taken her legally, but I wanted to wait for a boar or a sow without a cub present, even though it was a second year cub (you can tell from the size). With my 7mm Remington magnum and handloads, I'm pretty sure on the marksmanship side, it would be a fairly easy shot, but I'm not content that the round would squarely anchor her (or a him) to the spot. The terrain off the sides of the field are extremely thick. Think of wading through briars and brush on soft, squishy flat ground, and little blood to follow. That's why I leaned towards the 338 and don't want to use my quite capable 7mm Remington magnum. I'd like the bear to expire where it's standing, and hit it with authority. It's not my desire to turn this into a bear hunting thread, although suggestions to that end are kindly appreciated.

I might well have been better served for my needs with a 300 magnum of some sorts, for my exact scenario. I totally understand that. I also know that with some practice and a good range finder I could certainly take the same shot with a 45-70, or loads such as you suggest. But, like I said above, for some reason, I really wanted a 338 Winchester, preferably with a BOSS. Maybe, I'm a fool and perhaps a glutton for punishment! :D

All that said, I really like the idea of a 'starting load' or other approved 'reduced loads'. I totally get the concept that you can't just reduce any old load, it may cause a pressure spike and blow up the rifle, and, I'm not into all of that excitement. But an approved reduced load or starting load may be just the ticket to help me over any flinching, and perhaps check the rifle with some ammo other than what came with the gun: Hornady Superformance SST's.

Realistically, I'll probably shoot a few deer along the way, because deer season always coincides with bear season here, and here and there I'll probably pop a doe or maybe even a buck because the rifle happens to be in hand when I'm waiting for a bear, but see a deer and decide to collect some meat and call it a day. A little too much gun is less of a crime than not enough gun in my book. My preferred deer round is a 260 Remington, but I've taken plenty with 243, 30-30, etc. 338 is way overkill in my book, but it definitely worked on a 80 yard doe last fall, and to say the least, she didn't suffer!

I appreciate everyone's comments, I love rifles, love experimenting with different calibers, and hunting. The biggest thing I've learned about guns and hunting on the internet is that many people's hunting scenarios are DIFFERENT, (close range, long range, thick cover, open terrain, mountains, swamps, hunting with hounds legal/illegal), and what works perfectly for one fellow in one corner of the world, may not always suit another fellow hunting the same animal in another place. The animal is the same, but the hunting conditions and needs of the individual hunter can vary quite a bit.

All that said, thanks for any and all suggestions. I love guns, hunting, shooting, and good conversation on those topics! Ears open, mind mostly open, and enjoying every minute of it.
ch a 35 Whelen. Just one man's thoughts. If moving outside your comfort zone find someone who has the gun you are considering and ask them if you can shoot it. Good luck with the rifle, I hope you can sort it out.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Years ago I traded away a Win Mod 71 in 348 because it just became too valuable to take out for elk in the rains of the Olympic Peninsula. I replaced it with a 338 WM (plus a Citori 12 ga) and because I knew how lethal the 348 was on elk out to 150 yards, I downloaded the 338 to match the 348 because even with the muzzle brake, the 338 was rather unpleasant to shoot with full house loads. The muzzle velocity of both those 250 gr 348's and the 270 gr 338's were/are about 2000 fps. If that works well on Roosevelt elk 150 yards, it will work fine on black bear. These days I shoot 225 gr cast lead bullets in the 338 all year at an MV of 1800 fps for fun and the POA is almost the same as the 270's at 2000 and both are 2.5 MOA with iron sights. The noise, even with the brake makes fewer people complain at me at the range and those cast bullets at lower velocity are down right fun to shoot all day at a cost of about 28 cents or less a shot. FYI - my 338 won't stabilize those 225 gr cast lead bullets at velocities below 1600 fps.
 
#18 · (Edited)
My Bear and Deer loads are cast in Lyman #2 Alloy, That alloy requires 1,000 foot pounds on impact to expand the bullet double in caliber with flat nose #2 alloy bullets and has zero weight loss. It is not coincidental either The alloy was developed for expansion on impact at 1000 foot pounds with Deer loads and Deer hunting range with a 30-30 when factory loads were all cast bullets. Modern bullets only dream of that performance. Lyman, Winchester and Remington research on this is well over 100 years old. Sure new bullets can be shot at much higher velocities than cast but they don't kill as well as cast in the power zone of cast loads.

The term Humane Harvest has been around much longer than PETA and was originated by Hunting Guide associations worldwide well over 100 years ago and clearly defined by them to keep under-gunned hunters from crippling game while hunting with a guide that limits shots to skill level and load power of the client. Good guides will draw an idiot line of Humane Harvest for people that are too idiotic to know they are idiots about how to kill stuff.

This has no relevancy with modern factory ammo and modern Deer cartridges other than to estimate effective range with an energy standard. However, it does become critically important to the ammo reloader when tailoring reduced loads and that is why I mentioned it in this context for the original poster about reduced recoil 338 loads. I have no idea how much he wants to reduce his load, but minding humane harvest is an ethical matter in that pursuit.

If you wish to identify someone with Velocity Disease, they are the ammo reloaders that say START loads are stupid.

Gary
 
#19 ·
Onondaga, I appreciate your suggestions.

I mentioned it in this context for the original poster about reduced recoil 338 loads. I have no idea how much he wants to reduce his load, but minding humane harvest is an ethical matter in that pursuit.

If you wish to identify someone with Velocity Disease, they are the ammo reloaders that say START loads are stupid.

Gary
My needs and wants are fairly different than yours, but I can see that you've spent quite a bit of time experimenting and loading and tinkering to gain this knowledge, and, I respect you for that.

I probably DO suffer from velocity disease, I normally do think starting loads are stupid. Let me explain, that wasn't meant to be knocking you, I've just always been of the opinion to buy a weapon that under normal operation (factory ammo) is the power class you want it. Yep, you can make a 30-06 shoot at 30-30 or even 30 carbine power levels with the RIGHT load, but, respectfully, if a boy wants a 30 carbine, buy a 30 carbine, not a 30-06. I've also seen boys with the right barrel and handloads get the old 30-06 to nearly rival the power of a 300 magnum (usually by fudging the handloads on the hot side with a longish barrel). However...

I do know this rifle recoils a lot more than what I'm used to. But, I do want full power, flat shooting loads for bear hunting, in MY neck of the woods. A normal bear hunting scenario here is to catch the bear feeding in a field or crossing the road on a cold winter morning, and something that shoots -flat- and hits hard is quite the order of the day. I've made more than a few kills on deer in the 200-275 yard range, and I'd like to use this skill to my advantage hunting bears. In my mind, that calls for something that hits hard and hopefully doesn't require me to think too hard about holdover while I'm already a bit excited and all with a bear in front of me. I passed up several shots on a sow with a mature cub this year at right around 250 yards. I could have taken her legally, but I wanted to wait for a boar or a sow without a cub present, even though it was a second year cub (you can tell from the size). With my 7mm Remington magnum and handloads, I'm pretty sure on the marksmanship side, it would be a fairly easy shot, but I'm not content that the round would squarely anchor her (or a him) to the spot. The terrain off the sides of the field are extremely thick. Think of wading through briars and brush on soft, squishy flat ground, and little blood to follow. That's why I leaned towards the 338 and don't want to use my quite capable 7mm Remington magnum. I'd like the bear to expire where it's standing, and hit it with authority. It's not my desire to turn this into a bear hunting thread, although suggestions to that end are kindly appreciated.

I might well have been better served for my needs with a 300 magnum of some sorts, for my exact scenario. I totally understand that. I also know that with some practice and a good range finder I could certainly take the same shot with a 45-70, or loads such as you suggest. But, like I said above, for some reason, I really wanted a 338 Winchester, preferably with a BOSS. Maybe, I'm a fool and perhaps a glutton for punishment! :D

All that said, I really like the idea of a 'starting load' or other approved 'reduced loads'. I totally get the concept that you can't just reduce any old load, it may cause a pressure spike and blow up the rifle, and, I'm not into all of that excitement. But an approved reduced load or starting load may be just the ticket to help me over any flinching, and perhaps check the rifle with some ammo other than what came with the gun: Hornady Superformance SST's.

Realistically, I'll probably shoot a few deer along the way, because deer season always coincides with bear season here, and here and there I'll probably pop a doe or maybe even a buck because the rifle happens to be in hand when I'm waiting for a bear, but see a deer and decide to collect some meat and call it a day. A little too much gun is less of a crime than not enough gun in my book. My preferred deer round is a 260 Remington, but I've taken plenty with 243, 30-30, etc. 338 is way overkill in my book, but it definitely worked on a 80 yard doe last fall, and to say the least, she didn't suffer!

I appreciate everyone's comments, I love rifles, love experimenting with different calibers, and hunting. The biggest thing I've learned about guns and hunting on the internet is that many people's hunting scenarios are DIFFERENT, (close range, long range, thick cover, open terrain, mountains, swamps, hunting with hounds legal/illegal), and what works perfectly for one fellow in one corner of the world, may not always suit another fellow hunting the same animal in another place. The animal is the same, but the hunting conditions and needs of the individual hunter can vary quite a bit.

All that said, thanks for any and all suggestions. I love guns, hunting, shooting, and good conversation on those topics! Ears open, mind mostly open, and enjoying every minute of it.
 
#20 ·
**Wanted to add: this isn't my everyday deer rifle. I have a closet full of deer hunting guns, and our gun season for deer is currently 9 weeks long. We can take 6 deer and a bear. This rifle will take a deer or two, but I have other, better, more 'normal' rifles for the task. I know I can probably kill every black bear in NC with a good 30-06, but, I wanted a 338, and I'm having fun shooting it, even if I do need ibuprofen after 20 rounds! :D Stay warm, wherever you are today.

Mommicked
 
#48 ·
10-4 on that! I had a co-worker sell me a pristine BAR Safari in 338, and it has an older LEUPOLD "high-dollar" scope on it. It's very accurate, but I put that one in the collection, and not in the woods to hunt with. I bought a new box of bullets for it, and paid pretty good for it. Then, I went to a "country" gun auction locally, and they had about 6 boxes of NOS .338's. Think I paid 8.00 per box. Nobody else around here needed them. One day, I'm gonna hunt with it....
 
#21 ·
Some folks are still a little unclear on basic physics....

Bullets require impact velocity to expand (the rate of deceleration is the key). KE is merely incidental to the velocity; go up in weight, at a particular velocity, and guess what.... the combination might yield MORE than the 'required' KE; go DOWN in weight and the combination might yield LESS than the 'required' KE. So - ipso facto, KE is cannot be a 'requirement' for expansion. Only impact velocity can (in conjunction will bullet composition, and the density of whatever it hits).

Impact velocity that is appropriate to the bullet being used. That's what hunters need to be aware of. The manufacturer can supply the design parameters of the bullet. The handloader is responsible for the velocity part. The hunter needs to be aware of the range involved, and have some idea of the downrange ballistics, especially before using any sort of reduced or low power load.

And, flat nosed cast bullets don't require any expansion at all to give a wound channel; hence, KE is especially irrelevant with them.

So forget KE. It was dreamed up by ad copy writers and paid shills in the gun rags to sell new and improved 'stuff.'
 
#22 ·
338 win mag max reloads

I have a Ruger Sporter in 338 win mag that I have shot over 200 reloads of RL 19. The load is a225 gr bullet at 2944 fps, with this cartridge I have killed a moose ,black bear and a 8x9 elk. I can say this is a very accurate load and a lethal killer , the elk I shot was at 224 yards and he dropped dead on the spot. The blackbear was a head shot and needless to say he dropped instantly. I could not imagine how these animals could have been harvested anymore humanely. This is a very powerful cartridge that many people do not shoot because of the recoil. Lots of things are said about clean kills with smaller rounds but a 225 gr bullet at that speed is hard to beat when it comes to energy and penetration. There is never any question about having enough gun just can you handle that much power, at both ends. If you have good shot placement and reasonable distance you will never be disappointed. When you compare the amount of powder used and energy created it is hard to beat. Check Reliant 's website and compare other cartridges and efficiency will be quite evident.
 
#23 ·
My experience with the .338

My experience with the .338 was a trip I made to South Africa. The rifle was a Ruger 77 with a 4x Leupold scope. The ammo was some factory 250 gr. and some handloaded 300 gr. Barnes Originals. I do not remember the velocity, but it was on the slower side. Every animal ended up dead with one shot. I was a lot younger and do not recall the recoil bothering me at all. I shoot .22 rimfire now at paper. It is a great cartridge. I have never used a BOSS but if it directs muzzle blast to the rear to help with recoil, it will also be damaging your hearing. Bullets need to get to where the heart is and expanding bullets driven too fast sometimes don't get to where they need to be. Heck, if you are only going to load 225 gr. bullets you might as well get a .30-06 and load 220 gr which have a better sectional density. But you have the rifle. If it were me, I would take the BOSS off and have a Smith recrown the muzzle. I do not understand the rifle coming apart after shooting a couple of boxes of ammo, something is wrong. But what ever it is, it needs to be fixed. Good luck.
 
#24 ·
I have two .338 mags. One a TCR83 and a custom jobbie based on a Mark X action and Shilen barrel. Both rifles like heavy bullets when it comes to accuracy; 250 grain or better. I really like the 275 grain silvertips and the 300 grainers if i can find them. I use IMR 4831 with middle of the road velocities. From Alaska to Nevada and now to Virginia, game has no chance! Bullet expansion is always great! Just sayin!
 
#25 ·
Have a Tikka in .338 An incompetent gunsmith ported the barrel when I asked for a brake.. Totally messed it up. had a new (Sako) barrel installed with a brake. i don't like the noise with the brake so at the range use a caldwell lead sled to tame the recoil. Shoots well with factory setting including C.O.A.L. and factory velocities. I use 185 gr. bullets with great success, especially GMX, for everything unless I am hunting in Griz country when I switch to 225 gr...Recoil is always an issue with big bores but for that shot in the field I don't even feel it. Mulies and whitetail don't require a second shot
the barrel will heat up quickly and when warm will shoot inconsistenty and usually travel horizontally so don't over think it at the range.
 
#26 ·
My favorite hunting rifle is a 338 Win. Mag, but I have never had that kind of problem with it. When I first got it, the recoil was so fierce that I had to add a muzzle brake, but after that It seems quite mild for a magnum, and you already have that Boss on the muzzle, so I cannot imagine why you should be having so much trouble with it.

May I suggest that you try a different scope. If you have something else, or could possibly borrow something that would work in those rings, that may tell you something, or maybe not. If it does, you can send that Leupold back to the manufacturer and ask them if perhaps the recoil has knocked something lose. They do have a pretty good Warranty.
 
#27 ·
Range Report

Tuesday afternoon I had 2 hours to spare, clear skies, no detectable wind, 55 degrees. Lightly cleaned barrel, and NO BOSS PRESENT (notice, I have both the ported and non ported BOSS sleeves, when I use the BOSS, I use the non ported one, I don't like the extra noise). I loaded 3 rounds of each starting load according to the Hodgdon manual, plus one group of Hornady Superformance 225 gr SST (the ammo that came with the rifle, which I've been shooting). Velocities listed are Hodgdon's and Horanady's suggested velocities, and not from my chronograph, which I didn't have time to setup.

I4350, 67 grs, 3 shots: 1.5" 2650 fps
Varget 52 grains, 3 shots: 2" 2480 fps
I4064 57 grains, 3 shots: 2.5" 2580 fps
H225SST Factory, 3 shots: 6", 2850? fps

Note, all groups shot in the same 2 hour window, letting the barrel cool between each 3 shot group. No cleaning was done between each group.

Thoughts and possible conclusions:
1. Groups show that the rifle, scope, shooter, and rest have potential, and are NOT overly subject.
2. Each group was larger than the previous group. Shooter fatigue possible, but was not directly observed by the shooter, who seemed relaxed and not overly taxed by the shooting.
3. No brushing/cleaning was done between each 3 shot group; could be that the rifle prefers a clean bore for good shooting, or shooter fatigue is a possibility, but again, not noticed by myself, I have shot more rounds of this caliber than this in one sitting and would gladly do so again.
4. Rifle does NOT seem to like the Hornady factory ammo. This isn't a slam on the rifle or Hornady, both of whom I really like, just an observation that they don't play well together.
5. When I was shooting the rifle with the BOSS installed, I did get tighter groups than this one (usually) with the Hornady ammo than without it, usually about half the size for a 3" group, but it varied a lot, perhaps hot barrel or dirty barrel? Some barrels foul quicker than others, it seems.

I may try 'pulling' a few rounds of the Hornady ammo and seeing if I have any luck with the Hornady tips and say, a starting load of I4350 powder, discarding the powder from the factory load, into my garden. Gunpowder makes great plant food!
 
#28 ·
If the rifle is bedded properly, it should not work the action screws loose,,,so fix that if still needed. "Any" weight on the end of the barrel will be suspect. If it were me, I'd have that BOSS cut off and have a good crown added. What is your trigger pull like? Is it creepy, spongey, too heavy or too light and "getting away from you"? On boomers/cold weather rifles I like 3#, crisp. Then try your best grouping loads again. Start with a cleaned barrel, fire a couple of fouling shots, let cool. Shoot 3 shot groups, cooled barrel in between. If tired "stop", don't push it, wait another time to continue. In a lighter weight rifle, like that Browning, in a big magnum, actually 1.5" is very ,very good accuracy!
 
#30 ·
Rev Jim, always enjoy your comments and ideas. I really do.

I'm hoping that the crown will do as is, it's the deepest recessed crown I've ever seen on any rifle. It doesn't appear damaged. Normally I'd put a glass marble and some lapping compound on it, but it's recessed way too far for that. I might touch it up (or mess it up!) with a brass screw head ground down to the right size to fit into the recessed crown, and grind gently with a cordless on low speed, and lapping compound. I've seen it work wonders on 'shot out' deer rifles that see a lot of muzzle in the floorboard duty.

The trigger is so so. I like a good timney. This is not too bad of a trigger, but also sadly not readily adjustable like a Rem 700. I can order new, lighter weight springs from Midway USA, and may do that down the road. Not overly expensive, might have to add it to the list.

I may need to put some lead shot bags on the front of my rest. I'm using a huge bean bag type rest from Midway, but my 'nice' heavy 3 legged rest would jump clean off the bench from recoil, usually the left front leg jumping up. A bag of birdshot ought to hold her down!

Monty: on the Loctite, never thought to use it on action screws, but not a bad idea. I might try boiled linseed oil first, I've heard old timer gunsmiths who used it before Loctite for a threadlocker, and liked it because it held but could be broken free. If boiled linseed oil doesn't work, I'll step up my game and go Loctite. Thanks for a really good suggestion that I should have thought of myself! (Sometimes you stare at a problem too hard, you can't see the forest for the trees, and this was me on that one).
 
#31 ·
A bit on the loctite. If you wasn't aware, it comes in different strengths. What I use on Abolt action screws is #243 blue. It can be disassembled without heat using normal tools.
For smaller screws like scope bases the #222 purple is a lower strength thread locker.
 
#32 ·
I'm familiar with blue and red, I've always used blue on bases/rings, didn't know about purple. Have to look for that...thanks.

I'll try some blue on my A-bolt, although (pardon me) I'm going to go light first and see if just a little will do the trick. I'm scared of the action being stuck in the stock, holdover from doing glass bedding jobs, lol.

Anyone

Probably going to try to do a ladder with I4350 and a clean barrel. Probably pull a few of those SST's and see what a few of those will do over a modest charge of some random appropriate powder. N160, Re19, 4831SC, Varget, I4064, I4350 would all work. I'd just like to see if the barrel doesn't like the bullet, or if it's Hornady's powder/charge weight. I'm leaning towards the powder charge. I've had mixed luck with their high velocity ammo. I'd love to load/use the SST's if they work over another powder/powder charge weight.

I think I'm content with the crown and scope as being satisfactory for now.

What would be the crime in dropping back to say a 200 grain or 210/215 grain bullet versus the 225? I've often preferred the lighter for caliber bullet weights, and it would shoot flatter and bump up my velocity a bit, probably with a little less recoil.

I've seen where folks said things like 'if you're going to shoot bullets in that weight range, you may as well be shooting a 300 magnum'. Maybe, but my bullet is fatter, and, I don't own a 300 magnum. Also, I don't think I currently own a 30-06, which couldn't shoot nearly as flat with a 200 grain bullet as a 338 WM. I do have a nice 308, but now we're starting to stretch things a bit.
 
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