Shooters Forum banner

1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi all, I'm new to the forum but not a new shooter or handloader. However I did get some strange results at the range this afternoon with an experimental batch of 9mm that's got me scratching my head.

The Gun: GEN 3 Glock 34, OEM barrel.

The press: Hornady Lock n Load

The projectile: 147gr 9mm FMJ RN.
The seating depth: 1.090 +/- .002 (Hodgdon recommended max COAL is 1.10)
The powder: 3.5gr of Hodgdon TiteGroup (Hodgdon's site recommends a starting load of 3.2gr up to 3.8gr max for 147gr projectiles....interestingly enough, the TiteGroup jug label indicates starting load is 5.1gr)
The brass: once-fired mixed WIN headstamps
The primer: Winchester WSPM small pistol magnums

Why this combination ?: In a word, convenience. I've got a butt-ton of TiteGroup on hand and it's worked very well for my other handguns. Ditto for the Winchester WSPMs, they've given me good performance over the years...and I've got a lot of them sitting around.

These are intended to be range/plinking/competition rounds, not for defensive application. I'm not worried about crossing the sub/hyper threshold for suppressed shooting.

What I observed: smooth feeding and chambering. The shots felt good as they broke. Reliable muzzle flip, little to no fireball, and the brass extracted cleanly and smoothly, landing in a pretty pile to my 5 o'clock. All primer strikes are uniform, no light or heavy hits.

The performance on target, nowhere as good. At every range from 3 yds to 15 yds I'm hitting solidly at 2 o'clock. Kinda like a new shooter would heel the grip in anticipation of recoil - but I don't do that.

I switched back to a 5-shot group of 115gr factory loaded FMJ RNs (Sellier Bellot) and smashed a one-hole group at 7 yards with 1" edge to edge spread.

It's getting a bit pricey for the missus and I to keep buying factory loaded ammo by the thousands, so I figured I'd try my hand at cooking up a good range round.

Any advice or guidance forum meisters have is welcome and much appreciated....unless you're going to say "use the search function" which I already did as a lurker before registering. Thanks !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,265 Posts
I checked everything I have for 9mm data, and no where can I find data for any type bullet of any weight that has a published start of 5.1 gr. with Tite Group. So be careful and make absolutely certain that data always correlates to the bullet profile and weight you're using.

I don't personally use Tite Group, it's way too fast burning for my taste, so obviously I haven't looked at the data printed on the label. Also, is the data on the canister the only charge printed on the label, or is there actually a start and max charge? And if so what is the max charge?

Be extremely cautious, this doesn't sound right to me, not at all.

SMOA
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the quick reply SubMOA. To be clear, I didn't load that heavy, I just thought it interesting that there would be that much disparity. In addition to online references, I use Nosler, Speer, Lyman, and Hornady load books. Few if any books addressed a 147gr projectile in 9mm; most only have recipe offerings for 115gr and 124gr.

At 3.5gr of TG there were no signs of unsafe pressure, no flattened or blown out primers, hard extractions, or bulges.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,786 Posts
Welcome to the Forum

Glad to see you here and hope you post often.

Not sure what is happening with your reloads. I would try another powder and standard primers and see what happens. All the best...
Gil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
989 Posts
Just checked my Hodgdon manual for 147 gr. XTP and it recommended 3.9-4.4 gr. of TiteGroup. Your 3.5 load is on the low side and perhaps a higher charge would improve accuracy. Different bullet weights will print to a different POI, so your 2:00 o'clock groups seem normal...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
543 Posts
Sometimes primers make little difference. Sometimes primers can be more mismatched with the powder and can cause more fluctuations in velocity. I''m assuming you are not using a chronograph, where this would show up.

I don't use Tightgroup, but understand its a very fast burning pistol powder which is exactly opposite the purpose for which magnum primers were designed. Did your group size increase, or just shift position?

Velocity directly affects point of impact, and heavier bullets are usually launched at a lower velocity. With a pistol, the lower the velocity, the more the point of impact shifts towards the direction the gun recoils, mostly upwards but sometimes right handed shooters also pivot a little to the right.

The solution is to decide what ammo you will sight it in for, and stick with a similar load if you want similar results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,731 Posts
....interestingly enough, the TiteGroup jug label indicates starting load is 5.1gr) . . . !
I thought this was interesting enough for me to check my bottle of TiteGroup and the label says 4,8 gr. using the 115 gr. GD bullet for 9mm Luger. Nonetheless, whenever I see a listed single load value by the powder manufacturer or reloading manual, I interpret this to be a MAXIMUM charge and NOT a starter charge.

When testing reloads for a semi-auto pistol, my starting load is the load that reliably cycles the action. From that point, I gradually increase/decrease the load until I get the smallest sized group I can and not exceed the specified maximum load. Then the next step is to adjust my sights until the group centers on the target. Sight adjustment being limited to the sights on the pistol, I may have to throw in some "Kentucky windage" (take a different aiming point) to put the group where I want it.

If your load is grouping at 2:00 you will need to experiment with loads if your sights will not allow you to move the group or compensate with Kentucky windage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,055 Posts
A lot of good advice above
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
261 Posts
1) seating depth is not COL. Seating depth is how many inches the bullet is seated in the case while COL is the distance from case head to bullet meplat. COL is not fixed and depends not the bullet and the seating depth varies as different bullets are used, even if the COL is kept constant.
2) TiteGroup will probably never win any Bullseye competitions in 9x19. I have heard of someone with a CZC Accu 9x19 that does great with TiteGroup, but that is the only person I have heard from. Usually, Power Pistol or powders in that burn rate are needed for accuracy in 9x19.
3) I always start at the lowest starting load and work up, and determine where the accurate load range is. You wrote as though you just took a mid-range load and that was that with no load work up.
4) Are your bullets really FMJ or are they plated? Plated generally suck compared to REAL FMJ and well cast lead bullets. At the very least, if you want to use plated bullets, get the largest you can find. I prefer jacketed bullets that are 0.356-0.357" and lead bullets that are 0.357-0.358".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,265 Posts
A really great powder I've found for 9mm is Longshot. HS6, Blue Dot and Power Pistol have also performed well for me, especially with heavy bullets.

With few exceptions, Plated bullets have never performed worth beans for me, especially pointed one's, FP's shoot better IME.

SMOA
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top