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I am looking at a new Winchester 92 in 45 Colt.

Is there any practical difference between the short rifle and the carbine?

Is one more accurate than the other?

From an ad, it seems that the rifle has a birch stock and the carbine's is walnut (which is a plus)

Thanks.
 

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Birch is stronger than Walnut but the aesthetic value of Walnut is more appreciated. The only practical difference in the barrel lengths is the longer one has a greater sight radius and that alone has a tiny positive effect on group size. However with excellent reloading you can get either to shoot very well.

45 Colt factory ammo accuracy is easily beaten by a reloader that simply follows the basics of fitting cast bullets to a lever rifle correctly and using cast book loads with the recommended book alloy bullets that fit the chamber with a verified slide fit for stability BEFORE ignition. BHN 15 Lyman #2 alloy will do this with Lyman Cast Bullet handbook loads and bullets that fit correctly.

The simple Lee TL452-230-TC is a fast and easy beginning. These 230 gr bullets in #2 alloy cast, tumble lube and generally fit with no sizing to a slide fit. and even with this being a non GC mold, they will load easily and shoot well with Lyman cast loads for the same bullet weight in 45 Colt. This is a great flat nose bullet for Deer and Pigs. Loads with jacketed bullets drop right in but cast loads should take 1 -2 pounds more push on the lever when the cast bullets fit the rifle. If they just drop in like jacketed loads, your cast bullets are way too small for your rifle and will shoot all over the place compared to bullets that fit correctly. You should expect 1" 5 shot bench rest groups at 50 yards if you do your part fitting bullets and are a decent marksman.

If you are new to casting, note that bullets that drop from the mold shiny and pretty are undersized from the potential of the mold and weren't cast hot enough. Bullets with a lightly frosted velvety finish were cast at the temp that gives best mold fill out, best detail and largest diameter from the mold.

The Lee TL 452-200-SWC is not a light bullet at 200 gr. for Deer and Pigs either and it's SWC design paper punches very clean edge holes in paper and animal hides. I use White's 45:45:10 Deluxe tumble lube on all my cast bullets regardless of design, caliber or velocity and it has never failed with bullets that FIT and have been cast with the alloy strength recommended for the load by Lyman..

Gary
 

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Birch is stronger than Walnut but the aesthetic value of Walnut is more appreciated. The only practical difference in the barrel lengths is the longer one has a greater sight radius and that alone has a tiny positive effect on group size. However with excellent reloading you can get either to shoot very well.


If you are new to casting, note that bullets that drop from the mold shiny and pretty are undersized from the potential of the mold and weren't cast hot enough. Bullets with a lightly frosted velvety finish were cast at the temp that gives best mold fill out, best detail and largest diameter from the mold.
Short rifle and carbine = same length barrel. Short Rifle has a heavier barrel and capped forearm. As for the finish of a bullet, my Lyman molds drop shiny bullets that are sized perfectly, they're not too cold when they cast these, the temps are perfect. Frosted ones are too hot. My Rossi Short Rifles are my favorite to carry with their 20" Octagon barrels and longer forearms.
 

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Groo here
I think the term "short rifle " vs "Carbine" in this case has to do with the length of the
tube mag under the barrel...
The "rifle" has a short tube ,just past the hand guard .
The "Carbine" has a full length one.
The barrels are the same.
 

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You might find that your best accuracy will come with bullets in the 250-300 grain range.

I worked up loads for my niece and her husband, and both of their rifles shot well with 255 and 300 grain coated bullets at ~1100 FPS.

A 300 grain bullet at 1100 FPS still packs quite a wallop. Close to 1100 ft lbs. And they are very easy on the shoulder and the ears.

Try H110 (296) RL7, 2400, and see where your best accuracy is.

With 255 and lighter, you might even be able to find an excellent load with a slightly faster powder like AAC#9 or H108.
 

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Groo here
I think the term "short rifle " vs "Carbine" in this case has to do with the length of the
tube mag under the barrel...
The "rifle" has a short tube ,just past the hand guard .
The "Carbine" has a full length one.
The barrels are the same.
Nope. Has nothing to do with the length of the magazine tube. A short rifle is just that, a shorter version of a lever action rifle which typically had 24-26" barrels. The carbine is identified by the forearm, which is held in place by a barrel band. A rifle has a capped forearm held in place by a tenon dovetailed into the barrel underneath the forearm cap. I own 3 mod 92 rifles, one is a 1912 vintage Winchester in 32-20, the other two are Rossis in 44 mag, all three have 24" bbls and full length mag tubes. My two short rifle 92's are also Rossi's one 44 and one 357, both 20" octagon bbls and full length mag tubes. Also have 2 1886 Browning rifles. These have 26" bbls and full tubes. I had an 1886 saddle ring carbine, this too had a forearm retained by a barrel band, same as every other 92 and 94 Winchester carbine.
 

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You might find that your best accuracy will come with bullets in the 250-300 grain range.

I worked up loads for my niece and her husband, and both of their rifles shot well with 255 and 300 grain coated bullets at ~1100 FPS.

A 300 grain bullet at 1100 FPS still packs quite a wallop. Close to 1100 ft lbs. And they are very easy on the shoulder and the ears.

Try H110 (296) RL7, 2400, and see where your best accuracy is.

With 255 and lighter, you might even be able to find an excellent load with a slightly faster powder like AAC#9 or H108.
You're not going to get 1100 fps using H110 or 296 even under a 300 gr bullet. If you attempt this by reducing the powder charge, you're playing with fire here as the pressures will spike and be erratic
 

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OOOPS!!!!

Good catch!

I reveiwed my notes and the ~1100 FPS loads were with H4227.:eek:

Thanks for catching that!
 
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OOOPS!!!!

Good catch!

I reveiwed my notes and the ~1100 FPS loads were with H4227.:eek:

Thanks for catching that!
I loaded 300+ gr LFN bullets in R-P 44 spl cases and got 1500+ fps from a 20" bbl. That was 19 grs of 296. Which was a compressed load. (these are clearly marked as "rifle loads only" ) Never loaded them with 4227. Might try that sometime. The load above if you think about it is pretty impressive, Buffalo rifle ballistics in a 44 spl cartridge ;)
 

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I loaded 300+ gr LFN bullets in R-P 44 spl cases and got 1500+ fps from a 20" bbl. That was 19 grs of 296. Which was a compressed load. (these are clearly marked as "rifle loads only" ) Never loaded them with 4227. Might try that sometime. The load above if you think about it is pretty impressive, Buffalo rifle ballistics in a 44 spl cartridge ;)
My niece was looking for low recoil, low blast, deer loads for ranges under 100 yards. So I set out from the beginning looking for something in the 1,000 to 1250 ft lbs range. Even at 1100 fps, these loads equal or exceed a .44 mag handgun.:) And recoil is almost nil, which is important to her.;)
 
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