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Hi from Germany ,

I´m currently experimenting with PP-bullets in my 1895 Marlin and until now I had some interesting results , i.e.
no more leading at all ( I´m using soft lead , 3% tin only ),
and relatively tight groups ( 2in. at 100m ) . But strangely I get better results with patched grooved bullets than with smoothsided special PP-bullets . Does anybody have experience with paper patched bullets especially in 45-70 Gov. ?:confused:
 

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Saujager

I have some experiance with paper patch bullets in the .45-70. I have an NEI mold which drops the 0.443" dia. 410 grain paper patch bullet. This bullet has annular grooves, smaller than lube grooves and a bevel base. The annular grooves help the bullet displace metal and I think this improves accuracy. The bevel base helps with the patch tail when you twist or fold the patch.
In my current .45-70, a Marlin Guide gun with ported barrel, this bullet does not work very well. In my fathers Browning BPCR this bullet shoots very accuratly with either smokeless or black powder.
My NEI mold has two different cuts, the second cut is for the solid version of the 333 grain Gould bullet. This version also has a gas check shank. When paper patched this bullet must then be sized. I use Lee cartridge case lubricant (it comes in a small tube like tooth paste) to lube the patch paper. This is a die makers wax and works very well. If you cut the patch from the bullet after sizing you will see the weave of the paper imprinted into the bullet. In our experiance with .30 and .35 caliber bullets these lube groove bullets work very well when paper patched. I believe the Kragman has also done this and there is a thread somewhere on Beartooth where we discussed this a few years ago.

We have patched bullets with different alloys. For hunting I prefer to use reclaimed .22 LR bullets from a bullet trap. They cast easily and are butter soft.

I have found no difference in accuracy between folding the patch tail and twisting it. When using smokeless powder in the .30 and .35 caliber rifles I have found that the folded tail improves accuracy. It probably acts as a wad or barrier to hot gas.
I always prefer the thick paper for my patches and try to use 100% cotton bond. My father and I think the Kragman also, both prefer thin paper. I believe both of them use onion skin for their patches.

The NRA wrote about patching grooved bullets and I think that Paul Matthews has also (in Handloader magazine). I am taveling for the next few days but when I return I will hunt down the names of the articles.

I lived in Heidelberg for a few years when I worked for beechcraft. I really enjoyed it, I miss Cafe Europa!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
:)

Thank you guys for your replys , they were enlighting .
I really aprechiate that you share your experiances with me and as far as I could see at a glance , the link to the Greybeard-forum is pure gold .
 

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Saujager,
All of my Paper patching experience is with 30 caliber bullets.
In my 30/30 rifle,I get very good results with a custom smoothe sided bullet. In my 30/40,which is an old Military rifle,I get terrible results with it.
On the other hand,I get fairly good results with a sized down grooved bullet,that is patched.in the 30/40.

All of my best results are with 9 pound (onion skin) paper.
I find that heavier paper is more dificult to work with,and thinner paper,so far,shows no improvement.
Good luck,
Frank
 
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